Transportation => Tramways & Railways => Topic started by: CDP on June 13, 2011, 18:26:57

Title: Flushing Pier
Post by: CDP on June 13, 2011, 18:26:57
From Settle Speakman and Co Ltd,. 1907 to 1957 booklet .
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee401/Colin_Penney/Scan-22.jpg)
(http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee401/Colin_Penney/Scan1-7.jpg)
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Sentinel S4 on June 13, 2011, 18:34:01
Thank you CDP. That was very interesting. It is a pity that two of the three LCDR sea routes/piers have now gone. I refer to Gravesend West as the other with Dover as the last. Ramsgate was never seen as a route for the LCDR, the terminus was too far from the harbour. I could do with more on Flushing Pier as there seems to be very little in print which makes this gold dust for me. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Martin H on June 13, 2011, 22:09:01
I have a hi res scan of this pic for you all to see.
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae13/MartinDavidH/Pictures%20for%20Kent%20forum/Pier1.jpg)
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Sylvaticus on June 13, 2011, 23:04:35
That makes two surviving copies at least, maybe three, of the Settle Speakeman booklet. CDP's scan mentions shipbreaking at the pier after 1918. The company was Cox & Danks, my mother worked for them a while after leaving school. She said they broke up the German fleet that had scuppered in the Scapa Flow, and showed me large chunks of rusty iron lying on the slope of the sea wall. They were still there well after the pier had been demolished, possibly removed when the seawall was rebuilt later.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: conan on June 14, 2011, 14:11:07
A couple from my dads archive.I've seen a colour tinted version of the first one

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8526/rlybridges018jpged.jpg) (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/rlybridges018jpged.jpg/)

(http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/2718/rlybridges019ed.jpg) (http://img580.imageshack.us/i/rlybridges019ed.jpg/)

I'm not sure if this was taken from the end of the pier.Is that the Medway Queen?

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2776/bridges026ed.jpg) (http://img853.imageshack.us/i/bridges026ed.jpg/)
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Sentinel S4 on June 14, 2011, 20:05:23
Medway Queen Built in 1924. What is the date on that pic? Nice to see a close up of the LCDR M class 4-4-0 out on the pier.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Martin H on June 14, 2011, 21:42:52
I dont want to bore you with tecnical stuf, I start with a hi res optical scan at at least 600 DPI, and then I use paint shop pro, it has photo enhancment as good as any other, and you can run a salt and pepper filter to smoth out the dots, you can also run a moire pattern filter, that removes the patterns of lines. I then balance the contrast and brightness and manually remove all blemishes. It takes a lot of work to get the newsprint pic to look good.
As for the Seatle speakman pamphlet, I have a copy and a lady I used to work with at Klippons had another.(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae13/MartinDavidH/Pictures%20for%20Kent%20forum/SSM6.jpg) She is third from the left and her name was Mrs Wildish.
And this is the colour version of the pic of the pier (http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae13/MartinDavidH/Pictures%20for%20Kent%20forum/Pier8.jpg)
This is a pic of the flushing ferry(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae13/MartinDavidH/Pictures%20for%20Kent%20forum/Pier6.jpg)
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Chatham_Girl85 on June 14, 2011, 21:44:35
Sorry to be green but is this the same or a different place? I am thinking this was Port Victoria
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Martin H on June 14, 2011, 21:58:17
The flushing pier at Quenborough, was so called becaus it ran a service to flushing in holland.The same as the olau. Flushing was a victorian mis pronounciaton of Vlisingham, i bet I spelt that wrong! Port Victoria probably ran to the same place so may also have been a flushing pier. In the days before british rail, there were many rail companies, all offering cross chanel services from there own areas.When the rail companies merged, many of these became redundent.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Leofwine on June 14, 2011, 22:14:11
I believe the same origin is found in Flushing Meadows in New York, which of course was New Amsterdam before we 'acquired' it from the Dutch in the 1660s and renamed it New York!
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: seafordpete on June 15, 2011, 09:02:21
Port Victoria was on the other side -Grain
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: CDP on June 15, 2011, 16:40:51
Martin , Thanks for the photos especially the cooured ones .My grandfathes was Dave Wildish
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: ChrisExiledFromStrood on June 15, 2011, 19:50:54
Flushing = Vlissingen in Dutch (at least these days). The V isn't voiced though, so it sounds like an English F.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Martin H on June 15, 2011, 21:10:31
Have another pic of the pier, this shows it under construction in the 1860's(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae13/MartinDavidH/Pictures%20for%20Kent%20forum/Pier17.jpg)
hows that for a pic. It was given to me by Mr Cockney of Redan Place, his grandfather was the contractor who build the pier.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Sylvaticus on June 15, 2011, 23:00:43
Martin H, marvellous picture. I wonder if 1860 isn't too early for this latest photo? The 1869 OS 6in shows  just a short pier jutting straight out, presumably the original structure. Same on 1894 25in. Then the 1896 25in. shows the large extension across the end that they're building here. Mitchell and Smith's book record an extension being opened in 1876. Restoration after the two fires also required rebuilding work.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Paul on June 16, 2011, 18:39:41
Great pic :)
Its taken from the exact same place that one of my recent ones was taken.
Also note how much of "Dead Mans Island" is there in that pic. It could have had some of Swaleness Fort left on it?
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: conan on August 21, 2011, 12:49:48
In my post of June 14th I put a photo of what I thought was the Medway Queen but comparing it with the the picture of the P/S City of Rochester posted by Bryn Clinch on November 14th 2010 I think they are one and the same

http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=1395.0
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: conan on December 26, 2013, 20:43:03
Flushing pier from the sea

(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1543/7p85.jpg) (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/7p85.jpg/)
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: conan on January 04, 2014, 21:05:06
some Pathe newsreel footage of the pier being opened in 1928

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/new-thames-port/query/queenborough

also in CDPs opening post there is mention of HMS Orion being broken up and there is Pathe newsreel footage of that here

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/last-moments-of-famous-battleship/query/queenborough
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: HERB COLLECTOR on September 18, 2018, 19:19:11
Flushing Pier Destroyed by Fire. Friday 19th May 1882.
Destruction of Queenborough Pier.

A special telegram from Sheerness states that the London, Chatham, and Dover Railway Company's pier at Queenborough took fire at about four p.m. on Friday. The fire spreading rapidly, nothing could be done to check it, and the pier was totally destroyed. The Flushing mail-boat, Prince Hendrick, which was along side the pier, managed to get clear with but little damage, but the brigantine Census, belonging to Whitstable, which was lying aground, shared the fate of the pier itself. The cause of the fire is unknown.

A later telegram from Sheerness says the flames were first seen in the station by one of the officials, but such a hold had the fire obtained on the wooden structure, assisted by the strong east wind, that the conflagration spread with extreme rapidity. The officials in the goods department on the west side had to run for their lives without being able to take money, books, or documents, or to remove several railway trucks. The timber of the pier had been specially prepared by the creosote process, and this favoured the fire. In a quarter of an hour the pier was a blaze from beginning to end. The mail boat, Prince Hendrick, was quickly unmoored, but an unfortunate schooner which was aground caught fire, and was destroyed. Every exertion was made to stop the flames from spreading to the large slaugherhouses, &c.

      From the Weekly Mail. 20th May 1882.

Destruction of Queenborough Pier. 1882.
Two Lives Lost.

The fire which destroyed Queenborough pier was not distinguished (sic) until early on Saturday morning. The pier and all the buildings connected therewith, and the steam cranes, telegraphic offices and instruments, and twelve trucks laden with merchandise - including, it is said, a large quantity of silver goods - were destroyed. The schooner Constance, which was burned to the water's edge, was laden with coals. Two railway porters, named Highsted and Giles, perished in the flames. John Parnum, the chief porter, escaped with a few burns. On Saturday the leading railway officials and pier staff proceeded to Dover to arrange for carrying on the traffic with the continent. The Flushing boats had to embark and disembark their passengers at Dover in consequence of the destruction of Queenborough pier. An additional gang of men has been put on to meet the requirements of the extra service and to prevent delay. It was stated at Dover that two men are in custody on suspicion of having set fire to the pier.
     From the South Wales Daily News. 22nd May 1882.
           I can find no other report of arson.

  The two men who died.
  George Giles, stevedore, age 42.
  Harry Highsted, labourer, age 28.

Flushing Pier Destroyed by Fire. Thursday 19th July 1900.
Pier Destroyed by Fire.
Enormous Damage.
Gallantry of Bluejackets.

A fire broke out on Thursday on Queenborough Pier, and spread with alarming rapidity to the whole structure. The destruction of property was enormous, the sheds being full with goods just landed from the Dutch mail. Commander Herbert Tyler and 40 bluejackets arrived from Sheerness Naval School of Gunnery, and worked their way along the burning structure from the south-west corner to the upper end. The fire had by this time extended to the offices, and the sailors' efforts were directed to saving the houses on the opposite bank. The Royal Zeeland Company's mail steamer Konigen-Regente was at her berth when the fire broke out, but steamed away before the fire reached the front of the pier.
At 9 a.m. the underneath portions of the pier were still blazing, despite the work performed by the fire brigades ashore and the fire floats on the river. It is believed the damage will not fall far short of 100,000. Great credit is due to the steamer belonging to the Royal Engineers, which saved the coal brig Lena from destruction. The Dutch and German mails and passengers were embarked on the Konigen Regente at Port Victoria, and the mail packet Deutschland loaded her passengers and mails at that port.

    From the South Wales Daily News, 20th July 1900.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: conan on September 19, 2018, 23:46:20
Here's a reload of some photos of the pier that i posted and have disappeared from the forum

This one from the coal days

(https://i.imgur.com/WKPBYpNl.jpg)

One of the pier from the sea

(https://i.imgur.com/mzXTDHKl.jpg)

and one from the end of the pier

(https://i.imgur.com/XGBqrPzl.jpg)

Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: HERB COLLECTOR on September 21, 2018, 22:54:18
The warship in Conan's third photo is the Edgar class cruiser HMS Endymion, recognizable by the white band around the forward funnel. Launched 1891 and scrapped in 1920.
In September 1902 she was placed in C Division of the Medway Fleet Reserve. From 1906 to 1912 she served as a tender to HMS Wildfire at Sheerness. In 1912 she joined the 3rd Fleet at Portsmouth.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: MartinR on September 21, 2018, 23:25:45
I've just been looking at some old charts that I have of the Isle of Sheppey.  In 1974 the chart shows the railway line heading down to the Flushing pier which is noted as "ruins".  The area is labelled "Queenborough Point" and at that time was a distinct promontory  with mudflats either side.  By 1994 the railway line has disappeared and the pier was labels as "Obstn" and "ruins", but still showed the hammerhead shape of the pier.  The most recent chart still shows Queenborough Point as a location, but with land reclamation either side the coastline is a gentle sweeping curve.  Flushing pier is unmentioned, but there are still the "dolphins" at either end which carry quick flashing red lights.  From personal observation at low tide the timbers of the pier are still in the mud, and are a serious threat to any shipping/boating that strays between the dolphins on a falling tide.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Local Hiker on September 22, 2018, 00:41:59
Google Earth May 2018. Timber bases still quite clearly visible
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: conan on September 22, 2018, 23:41:08
A slight aside and maybe one for Bilgerat. Where did the word dolphin arise in the context of a warning or mooring post ?  I first came across it in this context in the Arthur Ransome book 'Coot Club' when the characters take a boat through Great Yarmouth.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: smiffy on September 23, 2018, 14:29:13
Looks like there is some disagreement over whether there is a definitive answer:

https://ask.metafilter.com/101821/Derivation-of-dolphin-mooring

I would also be interested in Bilgerat's take on this.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Bilgerat on September 23, 2018, 17:05:10
Sorry to disappoint folks, but I haven't a clue. I've always ever known them as Dolphins and have never thought to ask why.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Sylvaticus on September 24, 2018, 11:43:03
This might be useful:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Seamarks/Moorings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin_(structure)

https://ask.metafilter.com/101821/Derivation-of-dolphin-mooring
the OED has:

    6. Applied to various contrivances resembling or fancifully likened to a dolphin.

    a. In early artillery, each of two handles cast solid on a cannon nearly over the trunnions, commonly made in the conventional form of a dolphin.
    [...]

    b. Naut. (a) A spar or block of wood with a ring bolt at each end for vessels to ride by; a mooring-buoy. (b) A mooring-post or bollard placed at the entrance of a dock or along a quay, wharf or beach, to make hawsers fast to. (c) A wreath of plaited cordage fastened about a mast or yard, to prevent the latter from falling in case of the ropes or chains which support it being shot away in action.
      1764 CROKER, etc. Dict. Arts & Sc., Dolphins of the Mast. 1833 MARRYAT P. Simple vi, What with dead-eyes, and shrouds, cats and catblocks, dolphins, and dolphin-strikers, I was so puzzled.. that [etc.]. 1840 Evid. Hull Docks Comm. 90 Q. What is a dolphin? A. There is a post in the middle, and it is inclosed round by other posts, and this post in the middle is the post to make the rope fast to, and the others support it; it is for the vessels to warp into the river Hull. 1844 Hull Dock Act 91 Substantial hawsers.. fixed to the dolphins. [...] 1867 SMYTH Sailor's Word-bk., Bollard.. also a lighter sort of dolphin for attaching vessels to. Ibid., Puddening.. a thick wreath of yarns, matting, or oakum (called a dolphin), tapering from the middle towards the ends.

    c. Gr. Antiq. A heavy mass of lead, etc. suspended from a yard at the bows of a war-vessel, to be dropped into an enemy's ship when at close quarters.
    [...]

    d. ‘A technical term applied to the pipe and cover at a source for the supply of water’ (Weale Dict. Terms Arch. 1849-50).

    e. Angling. A kind of hook.
    [...]

    f. (See quot.) U.S.
    1905 Terms Forestry & Logging 35 Dolphin, a cluster of piles to which a boom is secured.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: JohnH on September 25, 2018, 17:42:57
Were the remains of this pier still extant in 1954?  I recall seeing the some sort of pier or remains of a pier from one of the boats that used to ply from Southend seafront to the Medway estuary and back.  (I was only 6 at the time.)  On the way back into Southend, the Medway Queen was on the end of Southend Pier, the only time I ever saw her.  Some time ago I was talking to a man from the MPQS who told me that he had been on the Medway Queen many times and had otherwise seen her many times, but never from on board another boat!
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: smiffy on September 25, 2018, 18:45:06
JohnH, if you look at the first post in this thread there is a photograph of the pier taken in 1956 which will give you a good idea of its appearance around the time you may have seen it.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: JohnH on October 01, 2018, 17:42:41
Thank you but that is not what I recall seeing.  What I seem to recall is a pier head (on a fairly short pier) with no building on it but a large board facing the water; I assume this would have originally had the name of the pier (or something like that) on it.  Does anyone have any ideas, please?
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Longpockets on October 01, 2018, 19:20:57
JohnH, there are a few contenders for your pier  here  (http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/Kent-Piers.html)
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Local Hiker on October 01, 2018, 19:49:07
JohnH, maybe you are referring to Port Victoria pier on Grain where the LNG terminal is currently. Flushing Pier is a little into the Swale so would not be so obvious on trips from Southend to the Medway. I won't elaborate here because that would be off-topic.

Try this link, particularly for the 1947 Pathe News video.
http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=16492.msg139185#msg139185
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: JohnH on October 03, 2018, 17:39:01
Thank you but I don't think that was it.  The other thing I remember is passing a floating dock and I think that was near the pier head in question.  I now think that this pier head (or whatever it was) must have been part of the Royal Navy dockyard
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: HERB COLLECTOR on October 03, 2018, 17:58:16
Does this photo help? Taken 1951, it shows a floating dock and Sheerness pier.
http://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW037835 (http://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/EAW037835)
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Longpockets on October 03, 2018, 18:29:09
The dockyard pier was/is Thunderbolt Pier but it does not have a head, it is parallel to the dockyard
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Bilgerat on October 04, 2018, 08:34:53
The dockyard pier was/is Thunderbolt Pier but it does not have a head, it is parallel to the dockyard

The pier inside the Dockyard is actually the Cornwallis Jetty. You can make out the former HMS Cornwallis alongside the wharf with the pontoons secured to it and the floating dry-dock secured to them.

Thunderbolt Pier is at Chatham.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: CDP on October 04, 2018, 11:02:23
Many a time I have walked across the Cornwallis jetty to catch the frot boat to take me up to the floating dock.
One ship that I worked on was the Loch Achinalt  (spelling ??) for the New Zealand Navy which was renamed the NZ  Pukaki or the Tutira .
On one of my trips to Australia in Melbourne harbour, who should I see but this ship and suddenly there appeared some of the NZ sailors who invited us aboard and we stayed all day drinking their heath etc., and a good time was had by all !!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Longpockets on October 05, 2018, 18:34:18
Thunderbolt Pier is at Chatham.

Yes, sorry, was thinking of Chatham instead of Sheerness.
Title: Re: Flushing Pier
Post by: Sylvaticus on October 06, 2018, 15:50:46
JohnH, if you look at the first post in this thread there is a photograph of the pier taken in 1956 which will give you a good idea of its appearance around the time you may have seen it.
Ref the condition of the Flushing Pier in that photo. It never recovered from damage by the 1953 storm and unusually high tide. The pier had many uses over the years. It was used by the RN during WW2, who extended it as far as North Road or High St, they also used the marshland between the seawall and Whiteway Rd. The footbridge seen on many photos allowed pedestrians on the seawall to pass the pier and railway. After WW1, the Flushing Pier was used by Cox & Danks for breaking up the German ships.