Military => Memorials & War Graves => Topic started by: Joe Potter on February 15, 2012, 16:50:31

Title: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: Joe Potter on February 15, 2012, 16:50:31
On 17.08.1940 a triple burial of German airmen, in a single grave space, took place in Whitstable Cemetery, the first two, identified only by their ID disc numbers, had died at Seasalter on 13.08.1040, the third coffin contained the few remains of four airmen that had died, off Whitstable on 16.08.1940, the CWGC were informed about the last interment, but not the first two, the result of this was that when in 1962 the other German graves were exhumed for re-burial at Cannock Chase German war Cemetery, two were left behind, and forgotten.
All concerned parties, CWGC, VDK and Canterbury City Council, are now aware of the situation, but have failed to resolve it, possibly due to the financial costs involved.
I hope this may be resolved sometime, its only 72 years after all.
Joe
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: Apollo on March 10, 2013, 23:32:19
What a great shame. Couldn't the cost of repatriation be split between the three parties?
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: Robin on March 11, 2013, 12:00:35
Further victims of the Battle of Britain.  So sad.

Robin.
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: Joe Potter on March 11, 2013, 14:58:47
Thanks for your interest. Since my original posting new evidence has been found in the records of the funeral director that originally buried these guys, their records show that the remains of only two, not four, were recovered from the crash on 16.08.40, but when four were exhumed on 31.10.1962, they were wrongly assumed to be from the same crew, and their grave at Cannock Chase was so named, so if my simple logic is correct, the VDK have a problem to resolve.
Joe
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: Apollo on March 11, 2013, 19:12:54
Forgive me, I'm a little confused. So it was mistakenly thought the two men who died at Seasalter belonged with the crew, the two men who perished off Whistable. No unmarked grave exists in Whitstable. Correct?
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: Joe Potter on March 12, 2013, 11:26:17
Confused, you are not alone, I'll try to clarify. This whole shambles is the result of the CWGC not being made aware of the first two burials, identified only by their ID discs, 69646/4, (Müller) the pilot of the Seasalter crash, and 69644/37, Oblt Horst von der Groeben who was recovered from the sea off Whitstable, also on 13.08.1940, so as far as the CWGC were aware only the last one, which is recorded in the burial register as containing the partial remains of four that were blown to pieces when their Do 17 crashed off Whitstable on 16.08.1940, existed, as a result when they exhumed the grave they assumed that the remains found were all from the crash on the 16th, and named them as such when they were reburied at Cannock.
The new evidence from the funeral director that only two sets of remains from the crash on the 16th were recovered, one being Oblt Brandenburg only adds to the confusion, I can only assume that if four sets of remains were exhumed, they must include Müller and von der Geben.
If you would like copies of relevant documents, please PM your email address.
Joe
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: mikegunnill on April 23, 2018, 18:42:41
Confused, you are not alone, I'll try to clarify. This whole shambles is the result of the CWGC not being made aware of the first two burials, identified only by their ID discs, 69646/4, (Müller) the pilot of the Seasalter crash, and 69644/37, Oblt Horst von der Groeben who was recovered from the sea off Whitstable, also on 13.08.1940, so as far as the CWGC were aware only the last one, which is recorded in the burial register as containing the partial remains of four that were blown to pieces when their Do 17 crashed off Whitstable on 16.08.1940, existed, as a result when they exhumed the grave they assumed that the remains found were all from the crash on the 16th, and named them as such when they were reburied at Cannock.
The new evidence from the funeral director that only two sets of remains from the crash on the 16th were recovered, one being Oblt Brandenburg only adds to the confusion, I can only assume that if four sets of remains were exhumed, they must include Müller and von der Geben.
If you would like copies of relevant documents, please PM your email address.
Joe


Joe Potter:

Did anything further happen regards your story above? I have tried to contact you without success.

Many thx
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: grandarog on April 23, 2018, 19:45:06
The record sheet appears to have all 9 German casualties removed to Cannock Chase,
Source CWCG.
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: mikegunnill on April 24, 2018, 09:38:28
The record sheet appears to have all 9 German casualties removed to Cannock Chase,
Source CWCG.

Grandarog:

It is difficult to know what to believe. I think in 2012 when this story first broke there was talk of moving the two officers from Whitstable.  Like many stories, nothing heard about this since.

Thx grandarog
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: grandarog on April 24, 2018, 11:50:30
This link explains the situation much more clearly back in 2012.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202867/Bodies-Luftwaffe-pilots-lain-unmarked-grave-1940-relocated-historians-finally-identify-them.html
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: mikegunnill on April 25, 2018, 08:04:15
This link explains the situation much more clearly back in 2012.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2202867/Bodies-Luftwaffe-pilots-lain-unmarked-grave-1940-relocated-historians-finally-identify-them.html

Have you heard about any change since 2012?

Mike
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: grandarog on April 25, 2018, 18:43:54
I am trying to get some more info at the moment will post if I find anything to update.Unfortunately Whitstable comes under Canterbury Council so may be a long wait, as they are noted for their tardiness.
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: grandarog on April 26, 2018, 13:38:48
Things are progressing :)
Update;-

Good Morning
I have passed your enquiry to Cemeteries, they aim to respond within 14 days.
Kind regards
Customer Services
Canterbury City Council
Title: Re: Unmarked German Grave in Whitstable Cemetery.
Post by: grandarog on April 26, 2018, 17:32:16
Outstsanding service from Canterbury Council. :)

Received reply today.

Dear Roger
Further to your email, the two german aircrew, Horst Von Der Groeben and Gerhard Muller are still at rest in Whitstable Cemetery.
Kind regards
Jackie
Jackie Davies
Deputy Cemeteries Registrar
Canterbury City Council