Waterbodies & Maritime => Chatham Dockyard => Topic started by: kyn on September 23, 2009, 14:32:50

Title: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: kyn on September 23, 2009, 14:32:50


Fro file ADM/195/7 at the National Archives, Kew
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: kyn on April 21, 2011, 13:33:51
Pictures from Keith Gulvin

Prison Officer supervising convicts unloading building materials from a "Brig" at St MAry's Island 1865
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii34/batgirlphotos/KHF/scan0001Medium-2.jpg)

Convicts preparing stone in the Masons Yard for the dry docks 1865
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii34/batgirlphotos/KHF/scan0002Medium-1.jpg)

Concrete being poured into the shuttering to build up the north wall of one basin 1865
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii34/batgirlphotos/KHF/scan0003Medium-2.jpg)

Steam pump clearing water from No.3 Basin after the coffer dam was completed 1865
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii34/batgirlphotos/KHF/scan0004Medium.jpg)
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: Sentinel S4 on April 27, 2011, 20:11:44
Hi, Kyn. These are great pics. I have a question. I do have doubts as to the fact that anyone can answer it though. In the first pic there is a loco. Has anyone got some details? She looks like a home built but I am not sure. Help...
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: DaveTheTrain on April 27, 2011, 20:48:52
Good question S4, and a great pic. 

If Kyn was agreeable, I could post the pic on the Traction Talk steam forum of which I am a member. Those folks are pretty good at ID'ing stuff and one of the forum members is the curator of the part of the national collection of steam railway stuff... he usually has a good idea.

I will await Kyn's resposne.

Dave
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: Leofwine on April 27, 2011, 21:34:25
Some more picture from the R.E. Library

Building Slip Chatham Dockyard 1856
Photograph reproduced by permission of the Royal Engineers Museum www.re-museum.co.uk
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5662440614_1f0dea206e_z.jpg)

Lengthening Dock, Chatham Dockyard 1856
Photograph reproduced by permission of the Royal Engineers Museum www.re-museum.co.uk
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5069/5662441224_6f24b22e92_z.jpg)

Chatham Dockyard Extension. General View of Construction Looking West 1850s
Photograph reproduced by permission of the Royal Engineers Museum www.re-museum.co.uk
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5064/5661874491_27849ebab0_z.jpg)

Chatham Dock Yard Late 19th Century
Photograph reproduced by permission of the Royal Engineers Museum www.re-museum.co.uk
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5186/5661875203_77931bba27_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: kyn on April 28, 2011, 09:06:21

If Kyn was agreeable, I could post the pic on the Traction Talk steam forum of which I am a member. Those folks are pretty good at ID'ing stuff and one of the forum members is the curator of the part of the national collection of steam railway stuff... he usually has a good idea.

I will await Kyn's resposne.

Dave

Feel free to repost the picture to find out what it may be  :)
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: helcion on April 28, 2011, 09:26:11
Kyn     -


I put the link to your photos on the groups for the Industrial Railway Society & the Narrow Gauge Railway Society & asked members for their comments.

So far the thinking is [1] that it is a weird machine & [2] it may possibly be a conversion from a road roller, Aveling Porter has been suggested without any real proof.

Vertical-boilered locos were turned out by many loco builders, the most well-known probably being Head-Wrightson & de Winton,  'home-made' has also been suggested.

Gauge is thought to be at least 30-inch & this might tie in with the track visible in your recent posts.

I'll pass on any other suggestions that may come up.

Thanks for a most interesting 'find'  !



Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: DaveTheTrain on April 28, 2011, 09:49:18
Kyn     -


I put the link to your photos on the groups for the Industrial Railway Society & the Narrow Gauge Railway Society & asked members for their comments.

So far the thinking is [a] that it is a weird machine & it may possibly be a conversion from a road roller, Aveling Porter has been suggested without any real proof.

Vertical-boilered locos were turned out by many loco builders, the most well-known probably being Head-Wrightson & de Winton,  'home-made' has also been suggested.

Gauge is thought to be at least 30-inch & this might tie in with the track visible in your recent posts.

I'll pass on any other suggestions that may come up.

Thanks for a most interesting 'find'  !


 
Helcion, a similar thought struck me, i.e. it looks like an early "coffee pot" roller.  I will post on TT and see what comes up.

Dave
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: Sentinel S4 on April 28, 2011, 14:53:15
I have zoomed into the pic in question and it seems that the wheelsets are of different sizes. I did ask my Dad, a fountain of info on odd steam, he did suggest that the plant being lifted from a steam launch. I have not totaly dismissed the idea but it is not high on the list. Looking at the stack (chimney) it seems to be in two parts. This lead me to start thinking about an older Merriwether (sorry if that is wrong) steam fire engine. Some of the early machines needed six or eight horses to haul them and they had a big boiler and a simple, not compound, engine to drive the pumps. I am waiting for the Oracle to get back to me. I like the idea of an early Aveling but the question there would be why make one when the factory was just over the road so to speak. I would really love to see this machine in the flesh. Sentinel S4.
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: DaveTheTrain on April 28, 2011, 22:16:10
Putting the loco pic on the traction talk website, the general thought is it, it may be an Issac Watt Boulton, he was into hiring locomotives as a business venture.  There is a book on his activities, Chronicles of Boulton's Sidings.   Sadly Amazon does not have a copy.   Think more about the Aveling connection I think its too early for his involvement.

Dave
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: helcion on April 30, 2011, 22:35:15
I have heard from David Fisher, whose family own a De Winton vertical-boilered NG locomotive, [ex-Welsh slate quarry CHALONER, normally resident on the Leighton Buzzard Light Railway]  & I quote his opinion  -

. . . . I believe it is likely to be a Hick Hargreaves ( Bolton) product built between 1833 and 1850. They built 95 locos.
My main reason for the identification is that they are the only vertical boiler builders I have seen to use 1 large driving wheel and a small leading wheel . . . .


David is about to publish a book on De Winton, who built many vertical-boilered locos  [& much else besides]  -

www.de-winton.com
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: Sentinel S4 on May 01, 2011, 09:45:58
Hi all. I have just had word back from the Oracle and he concurs that Merryweather built many tram engines and supplied plant for home build locos. However I would like to know more about Hick Hargreaves if Helcion could get to me please via the normal channels.
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: helcion on May 01, 2011, 10:48:25
Sentinel S4     -


'Hick Hargreaves' were totally new to me as well  !

I'll ask David Fisher but in the meantime there seem to be plenty of hits if you Google 'Hick Hargreaves locomotive'   -   
I've not investigated any of them yet.

Cheers

Helcion
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: helcion on May 02, 2011, 12:47:16
Quote
Putting the loco pic on the traction talk website, the general thought is it, it may be an Isaac Watt Boulton, he was into hiring locomotives as a business venture.  There is a book on his activities, Chronicles of Boulton's Sidings.   Sadly Amazon does not have a copy.  

I have just borrowed a copy of this book which deals with some of the weird & wonderful stuff that IWB handled / modified / built for his locomotive hiring business.

There is no reference to 'Hick Hargreaves' or Chatham Dockyard in the index, but I'll have a read of of it to see whether there's any other references.

'Chronicles' was by Alfred Rosling Bennett & was a 1971 'David & Charles Reprint'  ISBN 0 7153 5318 7  
It was originally published by the 'Locomotive Publishing Co.Ltd' in 1927
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: DaveTheTrain on May 05, 2011, 22:41:50


Quote
Putting the loco pic on the traction talk website, the general thought is it, it may be an Isaac Watt Boulton, he was into hiring locomotives as a business venture.  There is a book on his activities, Chronicles of Boulton's Sidings.   Sadly Amazon does not have a copy.  

I have just borrowed a copy of this book which deals with some of the weird & wonderful stuff that IWB handled / modified / built for his locomotive hiring business.

There is no reference to 'Hick Hargreaves' or Chatham Dockyard in the index, but I'll have a read of of it to see whether there's any other references.

'Chronicles' was by Alfred Rosling Bennett & was a 1971 'David & Charles Reprint'  ISBN 0 7153 5318 7  
It was originally published by the 'Locomotive Publishing Co.Ltd' in 1927


Excellent, thanks Helicon.  Would be interested to know what you learn.
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: helcion on May 22, 2011, 07:12:01

Quote
There is no reference to 'Hick Hargreaves' or Chatham Dockyard in the index, but I'll have a read of of it to see whether there's any other references.

No mentions in 'Chronicles'

Cheers

Helcion
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: Leofwine on February 09, 2013, 21:59:04
Morning Post - Thursday 06 July 1854

Very great improvements are in progress in Chatham dockyard. A spacious new slip has been laid down adjoining the slip on which the Orion, 91, screw steam-ship, has been built, which vessel will be launched in Oct. next. The Orion was originally designed for an 80-gun ship, but during the last year was lengthened 35 feet midships, in order to convert her into a 91 screw steam-ship, and she now appears a fine vessel. The new slip is completed, with the exception of the laying a few massive blocks of granite on the wharf wall, which has been carried out a considerable distance into the Medway, and will give a great depth at high water. The slip has also been carried further inland than originally intended, in order to meet the requirements for the great length of modern screw steam-ships of war, and it will be capable for the construction of the largest ships for the royal navy of this country. Messrs. Grissell and Peto have put up the metal supports on the south-west side of the slip for supporting the roof, which is to be placed over the slip at a considerable height to afford room for ships of great depth to be built under it. On the south-west side of the slip a roadway will be made between it and the slip on which the Orion has been built, to admit of timber being carted from the wharf wall to the saw-mills, where it is kept ready, when required. A hydraulic crane has been put up on the wharf wall on so simple and powerful a principle that a boy could manage it, and by a handle for regulating the crane, remove a piece of timber up to the weight of four tons from a ship in the river, and place it on the waggon for conveyance to any part of the yard. On the north-east side of the new slip a spacious tunnel has been made, extending its entire length, and a number of yards beyond into the mast pond; and a powerful hydraulic crane, capable of raising 10 tons, has been put up on the wharf wall, to remove the masts and other heavy trees from the ships in which they may arrive previous to being taken into the mast pond. There is also a large convict prison being built, capable of containing 1,000 convicts, for the heavy work of the yard. The-spot selected is outside the dockyard wall, and known by the name of "Tom's all alone."
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: cliveh on February 10, 2013, 16:01:54
Morning Post - Thursday 06 July 1854

Very great improvements are in progress in Chatham dockyard. A spacious new slip has been laid down adjoining the slip on which the Orion, 91, screw steam-ship, has been built, which vessel will be launched in Oct. next. The Orion was originally designed for an 80-gun ship, but during the last year was lengthened 35 feet midships, in order to convert her into a 91 screw steam-ship, and she now appears a fine vessel. The new slip is completed, with the exception of the laying a few massive blocks of granite on the wharf wall, which has been carried out a considerable distance into the Medway, and will give a great depth at high water. The slip has also been carried further inland than originally intended, in order to meet the requirements for the great length of modern screw steam-ships of war, and it will be capable for the construction of the largest ships for the royal navy of this country. Messrs. Grissell and Peto have put up the metal supports on the south-west side of the slip for supporting the roof, which is to be placed over the slip at a considerable height to afford room for ships of great depth to be built under it. On the south-west side of the slip a roadway will be made between it and the slip on which the Orion has been built, to admit of timber being carted from the wharf wall to the saw-mills, where it is kept ready, when required. A hydraulic crane has been put up on the wharf wall on so simple and powerful a principle that a boy could manage it, and by a handle for regulating the crane, remove a piece of timber up to the weight of four tons from a ship in the river, and place it on the waggon for conveyance to any part of the yard. On the north-east side of the new slip a spacious tunnel has been made, extending its entire length, and a number of yards beyond into the mast pond; and a powerful hydraulic crane, capable of raising 10 tons, has been put up on the wharf wall, to remove the masts and other heavy trees from the ships in which they may arrive previous to being taken into the mast pond. There is also a large convict prison being built, capable of containing 1,000 convicts, for the heavy work of the yard. The-spot selected is outside the dockyard wall, and known by the name of "Tom's all alone."

This would be No.7 Covered Slip


cliveh
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: Sentinel S4 on February 10, 2013, 16:22:21
Would the contractor, Mr Peto, be the same gent who built a lot of the LCDR?

S4.
Title: Re: Victorian Extension Works
Post by: Leofwine on February 10, 2013, 17:47:15
It doesn't strike me as a very common name, so I think it is quite likely it was the same Mr. Peto.