Leisure => General Leisure => Clubs & Organisations => Topic started by: aitch on January 30, 2010, 21:06:09

Title: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: aitch on January 30, 2010, 21:06:09
I was a member of the 14th Cubs in Gillingham, we met in, I think, a church hall in Toronto Avenue on a Monday evening.

Then aged 11 or 12, I went to the 14th (Rainham) Gillingham Sea Scouts who met on a Friday evening in Beringrave Lane, Rainham and stay with them until I was about 16 - then discovered girls - MUCH more interesting than boats and knots!!!!!
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Glen on February 01, 2010, 00:47:51
Hi Aitch - I was in cubs too. Remember going to my first weekend camp at Downe (nr Biggin Hill) and also to Buckmore Park. I went to Cambria Sea Scouts in Dartford/Greenhithe. We used to go rowing and canoeing on Dartford Creek and sailing at Greenhithe. Amazingly the old boat house at Greenhithe was still there when I had a look the other day (first time in about 20 years). The scout hall in Dartford (used to be opposite the Phoenix pub) is long gone.

Glen
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Stewie on February 01, 2010, 13:24:50
I was in the 17th Medway Cubs. The pack used to meet along Capstone in the Memorial Meadow. Must admit I did not enjoy it much, we went camping at Buckmore Park for a week once and it put me off living in a tent forever! We also had a week at an old holiday camp near to St. Margarets Bay.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Merv on February 01, 2010, 14:02:55
I could never commit to any long enough, I get bored and my own life was more adventer anyway.
But briefly  went to a Cub/Scout Group in Rochester of the Delce, also the Army Cadets in Fort Clarence and the Royal Marines in Pembroke...
I do feel more promotion of these is needed though in schools and the like, kids don't know what they are missing out on...
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: torpointblue on October 25, 2011, 19:36:45
aitch, the church hall you went to Cubs in is in Third Avenue, opposite Robert Napier School. Although it was the grammer school back then. I was a scout there circa '63, sadly it closed and so I transefered to the troop in Goudhurst Road, Twydall.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: strangelights on October 25, 2011, 21:13:25
I was in the 10th of Dover group at Northbourne Ave., Dover, probably around 1973-74. I recently attended a party in the same scout hall which some relatives had hired for the evening. What amazed me was how little the hall has changed inside. Its like stepping into a time warp. Even the old boiler and heating system is still in there and its still working! I think the scout hut is called Rowelyn hall ??
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: afsrochester on October 27, 2011, 10:31:36
I was a member of the 3rd Gillingham Cubs (1964-66) who met at St Augustine's Church Hall next to the Vicarage at the top of Rock Avenue. 
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: skipraider on October 28, 2011, 13:31:20
I was a member of the 18th (I think) Gillingham Cubs, who met at Fairview Junior School, Wigmore. This would have been in the early 1970s.

I stayed long enough to get my Bronze Arrow badge, but left in disgust after having an argument with Arkela during my attempt at silver. One of the questions I was asked was this - when cooking food on an oven hob, should the handle of the saucepan be pointing out (ie. away from the centre of the hob), or in. My answer was out, and when asked why I explained that there are often more than one ring in use when cooking and turning the handle in would potentially cause it to be heated such that it could be dangerous to hold.

Arkela told me that this was the wrong answer and that saucepan handles should always be turned inwards in case there was a toddler or small child in the vicinity who might reach up, grab the handle and spill the boiling contents of the pan over themselves.

Despite the fact that I thought my answer was a perfectly valid one (and still do), backed up with a logical and reasonable explanation, and also that when asked the question I had not been made aware of the presence of small children in said scenario, I was denied my Silver Arrow.*

I think this early traumatic episode may well have sown the seed of a deep mistrust of authority figures in my young mind.

I also vaguely remember attending a camp fire event at Buckmore Park but felt very left out because they were all singing songs I didn't know.

I guess I just wasn't cut out for that kind of thing.

* (there may well have been other reasons, but the bitterness of age has singled this out)
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: nickdykes on October 28, 2011, 21:52:03
I was a member of the Cubs and Scouts at St. Augustine`s Church in the hall in the 80s with Gay the pack leader and also remember Robin too. Loved my time there.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Jason on October 29, 2011, 06:27:14
aitch the church hall you went to cubs in is in Third Avenue opposite Robert napier School. Although it was the grammer school back then. I was a scout there circa '63 sadly it closed and so I transefered too the troop in Goudhurst Road Twydall

I think that was the 18th Gillingham (Twydall) troop.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: sheppey_bottles on March 04, 2012, 12:54:50
I obtained a silver plated cup/trophy today which is marked Presidents Cup, 23rd Troop, Dover Boy Scouts and I wish to find out more about it. I had a look on Google and the maker dates it to before 1940 (RSP Co, RAENO) but can find nothing on this scout troop in Dover.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Bilgerat on March 04, 2012, 13:21:50
I was in 1st Gillingham (the one by St Lukes Church) Cubs. I got my Bronze Arrow too.....
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Leofwine on March 04, 2012, 14:01:26
I was in the 12th (Garrison) Scouts for a while until I got kicked out for building a big fire (hey, isn't that what scouts are supposed to do?)  I then went to a troop in Rainham for a while but can't remember the number.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: sheppey_bottles on March 04, 2012, 14:11:48
I was a Cub in the 2nd Woolwich, Dib Dob, and I still have my first certificate from the cubs for winning one length freestyle aged 9 and a half. :)
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: seafordpete on March 04, 2012, 14:16:46
I was a cub in the 2nd Woolwich, Dib Dob, and I still have my first certificate from the cubs for winning one length freestyle aged 9 and a half. :)

Yeah but you're onl 10 now!!!  :)
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: sheppey_bottles on March 04, 2012, 14:25:25
I may act like it seafordpete but I certainly don't feel like it..today I could add an 0 on the end of that 10  :)
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Janetlinda56 on March 04, 2012, 16:38:48
My sons were at Beavers and Cubs in the 90's, one was at the 19th Gillingham at the United Reform Church, the younger on at 5th Gillingham, St Augustines.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: ballysheil on March 07, 2012, 22:44:33
I went to Cubs in Southhill Barracks, Chatham and then Scouts in Boundary Road, Chatham but can`t remember the troop names or numbers, anyone remember?
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: alec ludlow on November 19, 2012, 20:04:46
Although this is an old thread, hopefully someone might have a comment or two.

I enjoyed a brief time in the Wolf Cubs. Our troop was the 17th Medway West which met in the scout hut along Capstone Road.
I haven't been there for many, many years.
Can anyone tell me, is the hut still there (I'd be surprised if it was)?

I was there around 1958/1959. I dimly remember the Akela was a rosy cheeked lady, I believe by the name of Mrs Ravenscroft.
Again, from the absolute bottom of my memory, I think she had a daughter who was in the Girl Guides. Her hubby, who we all called "Skip" (or Skipper) also helped to run the troop. The family lived somewhere along/off Luton Road.

Yes, they took us all to "camp" at Buckmore Park and of course we sang all about "The old Dun cow" (or something like that) as well as doing our "Ging gang goolies" around the midnight campfire.

Any one else here remember the troop, its leaders or was maybe a fellow cub?

Alec.

Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: peterchall on November 19, 2012, 21:27:41
My wife, who lived in Sydney Road until 1952, says the Ravenscrofts lived in the first house in Mills Terrace, that has its side wall flanking Otway Street. We both think the scout hut is still in Capstone Road, but don't know if it's still used by Scouts
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Bilgerat on November 19, 2012, 21:51:33
As far as I know, there is still a scout hut opposite Luton Rec, near the Waggon at Hale pub. Is that the one?
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: alec ludlow on November 19, 2012, 22:10:41
My wife, who lived in Sydney Road until 1952, says the Ravenscrofts lived in the first house in Mills Terrace.....

Thank you for that Peterchall.
I had the feeling that they lived just off Luton Road rather than on it. Mills Terrace...yep, that would be right!

Kind regards.

Alec.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: alec ludlow on November 19, 2012, 22:12:44
As far as I know, there is still a scout hut opposite Luton Rec, near the Waggon at Hale pub. Is that the one?

Yes, that would be it Bilgerat. Maybe a hundred yards or so along from the pub but on the other side of the road.
Thank you.

Alec.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Lutonman on November 20, 2012, 21:25:43
The 17th Medway still meet in the hut at Luton. Although a replacement hut was built on the outside of the first hut and then the original was taken down inside of it. Clever idea.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: alec ludlow on November 20, 2012, 22:13:42
Thank you so much for your reply Lutonman.

I would liked to have seen the old hut within the new!

Alec.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: AlanH on November 21, 2012, 09:04:25
I was in the 51st (or 52nd) Medway West I think they were called. Had a hut nearly opposite the Fairway on Fleet Road Rochester. They built houses there years ago and my BiL and MiL lived there for some years.
Chief Scout I think was named Whitelaw possibly, or Whitehead and if he saw lads trudging up Maidstone Road, Rochester on the way to Buckmore he'd give us a lift in his old Jag.
One of our older members was named Don Bessant, from fading memory, and he became an art teacher (I think) and his girlfriend was an actress named Julie something .....totally forgotten now.
My hat always had a bendy brim for some reason.
AlanH.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: conan on November 22, 2012, 18:58:19
I was a member of the 9th Sheppey which was the Sheerness Tech. School troop. It was run by Brian Palmer, 'Biffo' Jackson and Terry Spice, all teachers at the school. The attached photo was taken in 1968 or 9 at the school`s playing field at Seager Road on the occasion of a visit from a Dutch scout troop.

(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2121/familyyphotos002ed.jpg) (http://img22.imageshack.us/i/familyyphotos002ed.jpg/)
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Ratty on November 30, 2012, 14:04:48
I remember the visit of the Dutch Scouts and I am probably one of the boys in the photo but can't tell which one.  We used to have great wide-games on that field attcking the pavilion with flour bombs or defending it with Fairy liquid bottle water guns.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: medwayboy on March 07, 2013, 20:08:47
I was a member of the 17th Medway West scout group until 1960 when I left to join the Army, it was then run by Skipper Peter Gardener sm. and Ron Goldsmith asm.
We had great times and good camps, British Bulldog outside in the field where the hut was located.
                      Ken Blackman
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: CHANTALIAN on August 17, 2013, 18:18:01
AlanH,  It was the 51st Medway West (St Justus) scout troop. As you so rightly recall it used to meet in Fleet Road and then moved in 1960 to a hut next to the shops on the Fairway.

The main mover of the group, in my time, was Dave BREWER. He was the Scoutmaster and later became the Senior Scoutmaster. In the early 60's the group was very large having three cub packs, two scout troops, one senior scout troop and some venture scouts.

Cyril WHITEHEAD wa the district Commissioner you were thinking about. He lived on Priestfields.

Many, many fond memories of this time and the people.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: petermilly on August 17, 2013, 19:17:35
I was at the 24th Medway West, Borstal. Early 60s.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Jim Bell on August 18, 2013, 09:38:16
 :) I was in 12th Medway West in 1960's, based in Wouldham.
Had great fun camping at Buckmore Park.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: JohnWalker on August 18, 2013, 10:33:44
Just moving the thread eastwards a bit.  I was in 2nd Canterbury Scouts.  When I first joined, the headquarters were in the undercroft of the Eastbridge Hospital, High Street, Canterbury.  An amazing atmosphere with some 'games' played in total darkness.

A purpose built headquarters was later built in Sturry Road but it lost the great atmosphere of the undercroft.

Had many good times while a member including a camp in Bedgebury Forest.

JW
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Ron Stilwell on August 18, 2013, 23:43:49
Doing a little research on the defence of East Kent in WW2, I was interviewing a man who was in the Scouts in Broadstairs, Thanet, in 1939.  He told me that the Broadstairs Scout Group were engaged in filling sand-bags down on the beach at Broadstairs and using a block and tackle to get them up to a lorry on the cliff-top. 
I wonder how many other groups of this type, sea-scouts, boys brigade, etc, volunteered in a similar way.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Apollo on August 19, 2013, 00:39:50
My younger brother and I were Cubs in Dartford 8th Scouts for a few years. The group met, and indeed continues to meet, at the Hilton Hall in Oakfield Lane on Tuesday evenings.

I remember the group would occasionally meet at the Scout House on Broomhill Road to watch films (Chitty Chitty Bang Bang springs to mind), and enjoyed the occasional weekend outing (one place in Essex was reputedly haunted, had the remains of London Bridge in its grounds, and Dick Turpin passed through there on his way to York!) There we also learnt the "Quartermaster's Store" (much to the annoyance of my parents) and "I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)".
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: JohnWalker on August 19, 2013, 09:25:51
So Apollo

You've seen 'chips as big as battleships' then  :)

JW
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: sparky230 on August 19, 2013, 19:40:32
Ex cub and scout, All Saints Maidstone, ex cub leader, All Saints and Mote Park Maidstone.

Have camped at Buckmore Park, Halmet Wood (Maidstone's camp site, Stockett Lane, Coxheath, Loose Swiss's Camp, Tovil's site and seen the Memorial to Guy Gibson, and Hope Hill site at Meopham.

Also sound engineered many Gang Shows at the Hazlitt Theatre.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Apollo on August 19, 2013, 20:49:45
Indeed, JW.

Rats as big as alley cats, and beavers with little meat cleavers :)
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: JohnWalker on August 19, 2013, 22:40:52
Indeed, JW.

Rats as big as alley cats, and beavers with little meat cleavers :)

We also had   Butter-butter  a' streaming down the gutter! and Ants Ants in kilts and yellow pants!

I had a wheelbarrow - the wheel it went round!  And as for that woodpecker!

I'm sure scouting did us a lot of mental damage  :)

JW
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: sparky230 on August 20, 2013, 07:25:00
"My Eyes are dim I cannot see, I've dropped my specs down the WC"
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: JohnWalker on August 20, 2013, 08:04:19
A man put his hand in the woodpecker's hole and the woodpecker said, "REMOVE IT!"
So the man took his hand from the woodpecker's hole and the woodpecker said, "REPLACE IT!"

Repeat many times in unison around the camp fire until brain dead............

Oh, Scouting was such fun  :)

JW
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Signals99 on August 20, 2013, 09:11:45
Greetings fellow members,
Is this a purely scouts and cubs thing, or can sea cadets/royal marine /army cadets /girly guiders :) :) :) contribute? :)
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: petermilly on August 20, 2013, 10:59:58
No girls in my time........
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: peterchall on August 20, 2013, 11:40:14
A man put his hand in the woodpecker's hole and the woodpecker said, "REMOVE IT!"
So the man took his hand from the woodpecker's hole and the woodpecker said, "REPLACE IT!"

Repeat many times in unison around the camp fire until brain dead............

The full version, to the tune of ‘Dixie':

Walking through the woods one day
Beneath the midday sun
I was feeling bright and gay
And thought I’d have some fun, so

I put my finger in a woodpecker’s hole,
The woodpecker said “God bless my soul,
Take it out, take it out, take it out,
REMOVE IT”

I removed my finger from a woodpecker’s hole,
The woodpecker said “God bless my soul,
Put it back, put it back, put it back,
REPLACE IT”

I replaced my finger in a woodpecker’s hole,
The woodpecker said “God bless my soul,
Turn it round, turn it round, turn it round,
REVOLVE IT”

I revolved my finger in a woodpecker’s hole,
The woodpecker said “God bless my soul,
Take it back, take it back, take it back,
REVERSE IT”

I reversed my finger in a woodpecker’s hole,
The woodpecker said “God bless my soul,
Pull it back, push it in, in and out,
RECIPROCATE IT”

I reciprocated my finger in a woodpecker’s hole,
The woodpecker said “God bless my soul,
Speed it up, speed it up, speed it up,
ACCELERATE IT”

I accelerated my finger in a woodpecker’s hole,
The woodpecker said “God bless my soul,
Slow it down, slow it down, slow it down,
RETARD IT”

I retarded my finger in a woodpecker’s hole,
The woodpecker said “God bless my soul,
Take it back, take it back , take it back,
RETRACT IT”

I retracted my finger from a woodpecker’s hole,
The woodpecker said “God bless my soul,
Do it again, do it again, do it again,
REPEAT IT”

I put my finger in a woodpecker’s hole,
The woodpecker……


Another one in similar vein was:

There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza,
There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, a hole.
Then mend it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Then mend it, dear Henry, dear Henry, mend it.

With what shall I mend it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I mend it, dear Liza, with what?
With  straw, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With  straw, dear Henry, dear Henry, with straw.

The straw is too long, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The straw is too long, dear Liza, too long,
Then cut it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Then cut it, dear Henry, dear Henry, cut it.

With what shall I cut it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I cut it, dear Liza, with what?
With a knife, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
With a knife, dear Henry, dear Henry, a knife.

The knife is too dull, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The knife is too dull, dear Liza, too dull.
Then sharpen it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry
Then sharpen it, dear Henry, dear Henry, sharpen it.

On what shall I sharpen it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
On what shall I sharpen it, dear Liza, on what?
On a stone, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
On a stone, dear Henry, dear Henry, a stone.

The stone is too dry, dear Liza, dear Liza,
The stone is too dry, dear Liza, too dry.
Well wet it, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Well wet it, dear Henry, dear Henry, wet it.

With what shall I wet it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
With what shall I wet it, dear Liza, with what?
Try water, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
Try water, dear Henry, dear Henry, water.

In what shall I fetch it, dear Liza, dear Liza?
In what shall I fetch it, dear Liza, in what?
In a bucket, dear Henry, dear Henry, dear Henry,
In a bucket, dear Henry, dear Henry, a bucket.

There's a hole in my bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza,
………
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: JohnWalker on August 20, 2013, 19:05:40
Thanks for the complete wording of the Woodpecker song peterchall  :) Your version sounds a bit risqué  :)  :)  :)

We only learned the two lines I posted - it could go on for ages. 

A lot of our members (including myself) weren't very bright so the Scoutmaster didn't like to tax us too much.  :)

The same went for the wheelbarrow song - just the one line repeated over and over again round the camp fire.  We did change the tempo or sing it in 'rounds' on occasions to heighten the excitement. 

I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel it went round.  I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel it went round.  I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel it went round.  I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel it went round.  I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel it went round.  I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel it went round.  I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel it went round.  I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel it went round.  I had a wheelbarrow, the wheel it went round.  ............ zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

JW
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: peterchall on August 20, 2013, 21:44:01
Thanks for the complete wording of the Woodpecker song peterchall  :) Your version sounds a bit risqué  :)  :)  :)
It is about the hole that woodpeckers make in trees :) :)

I have limited experience of scouting because WW2 was on when I was the appropriate age, so we were limited to one evening a week in a hall somewhere off the Delce, Rochester. No camping, of course, and not even a full uniform due to clothes rationing. My main memory is of 2 games:

In one the members of each patrol took off their shoes and put them in a pile on the floor; then the lights were put out and the members had to find their shoes and put them on within a certain time limit, the winning patrol being the one who had got most of their correct shoes on. Because of the blackout it was truly dark – no outside light coming in via windows. I can’t remember what the game was called.

The other game was the classic ‘British Bulldog’. Is that still allowed?

My wife was a Guide leader, so my main memories of camping and camp fires are of camping with them. It was in the days when husbands of guiders were allowed to accompany them to camp, and I have happy memories of the annual district camp of 3 or 4 companies, with appropriate number of husbands, at Blacklands, near East Grinstead. Are male ‘slaves’ still allowed at Guide camps?

One guide game was to teach a group of girls to dance and sing, starting off very slowly and gradually increase speed – it sometimes took a little while before they realised they were dancing and singing “Oh what a fool I am, I am”
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Signals99 on August 20, 2013, 23:08:43
Hi Peterchall! I wonder if the scout/cub hall "somewhere off the Delce" was the same one I went to.
It had been a church at some time, pointy windows etc, all the windows had fine mesh chicken wire over them.
Think it may have ended its days as an Indian temple ?
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: prb on August 20, 2013, 23:41:11
St. Andrew`s, corner of Rose Street & Cossack Street maybe.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Mike S on August 20, 2013, 23:58:33
St Andrews corner of Rose Street & Cossack Street may be.
I am pretty sure that you are referring to the meeting place of 44th Medway West scouts. Scoutmaster in 1956 was a man by the name of Salter, assisted by a very large chap named Bill Rapley. There was a song we used to sing, "We're The Delce Road Boys", anyone know the full version? I can only remember a small amount of it.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Signals99 on August 21, 2013, 08:25:53
PrB, Mike S, thanks for that! Yep, that was the place, I joined the cubs prior to becoming a sea cadet at Paisley Road, Gillingham. I think maybe more in The illustrious Peterchalls time than yours.
Peterchall, did you attend the jamboree on Jacksons Rec. just after the war ended ?
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: peterchall on August 21, 2013, 11:00:06
I’m pretty sure that was the place for me as well.

As I said, it was during the war, definitely after the blitz of 1940/41, and I only remember going there during dark nights – with Double BST, sunset in mid-summer was not until well after 10pm, and there was plenty for we street yobs to do then anyway. So it was probably the winter of 1941/42, 1942/43, or 1943/44, when I would have been 12 to 14.  By the winter of 1944/45 I was working and probably ‘too adult’ – in my opinion – for scouting.

As far as I recall, there was only one scout leader, a chap in his 40’s or 50’s. Most men of scout leader age and disposition would have been in the forces, and those that weren’t were either working 60+ hour weeks or were not very physically fit. But it must have been something of an achievement to get a scout troop up and running in those circumstances.

So I'm afraid scouting never really caught on with me, and British Bulldog wasn’t a game for the faint hearted!
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Signals99 on August 21, 2013, 11:57:41
A word of explanation re British Bulldog:- a couple of boys (preferably large and rough) stood in the centre of the hall. All other participants went to one end of the hall, the lads in the middle being the "British Bulldogs". At a signal from the scout master/local sadist it was the task of the non bulldogs to rush to the other end of the hall; this is when it got interesting, and the task of the bulldogs to catch them. On being caught they became bulldogs.
The best description is verbal and physical mayhem. Needless to say the 'elf & safety persons have banned it. Fair description Peterchall ??   
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: JohnWalker on August 21, 2013, 14:34:48
That's how I remember it too - good excuse for the bully element to come into their own.  Good training for bouncers!
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: peterchall on August 21, 2013, 14:49:48
To be clear, the ‘runners’ who were caught didn’t take over from the bulldogs, as in a game of playground ‘chase’, but were added to them. So eventually there were many bulldogs and only a few runners – the winner being the last runner left ‘alive’. Probably at its most brutal when about evenly divided between bulldogs and runners. But I can’t remember how bulldogs and runners were distinguished, so I hope that’s right.

To be fair to ‘Elf and Safety’ officials, it wouldn’t be within their remit – if it has been banned it will have been by the scout movement itself, or insurance companies refusing to cover it, and then blaming a non-existent H&S Regulation.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Signals99 on August 22, 2013, 01:01:08
Thanks for that Peterchall, the rules of "British Bulldog" , from one who has obviously partaken in the sport (or was it  a blood sport).
Had its compensations though, we settled a few old scores in the general melee, a battle royal of magnificent proportions, anything went, blows were traded, reputations as hard men built. Plus some lost.
Oh for those days again, not having to put up with the sarcasm that passes for conversation by some among us, just half an hour of good old "British Bulldog " in our wheelchairs, but no zimmer frames. They really hurt  :) :)

Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Apollo on August 22, 2013, 10:51:16
British bulldog was not played when I was in Cubs, but was a weekly occurrence at Ju jitsu. We were expected to put into practice what we had learnt; grapples, blocks, and break-falls. Great fun, when you weren't the one being thrown onto the mat by a kid twice your size, of course.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: ETA on August 22, 2013, 20:00:55
I too was in the Scouts, (2nd Gillingham). We played a similar game called 'murder ball', which was like rugby but played with a medicine ball.  No holds barred, of course.  I expect this too has been banned as there were elements of fun, danger and physical exertion involved.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: JohnWalker on August 22, 2013, 21:09:51
Just found this PDF file link on Scouting Campfire Songs.  I didn't know there were so many.  Should bring some more memories back.  Ging Gang Gooli ...........

http://www.oldmeldrum-scouts.org.uk/scouting/images/resources/campfire_songs.pdf (http://www.oldmeldrum-scouts.org.uk/scouting/images/resources/campfire_songs.pdf)

JW
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: peterchall on August 23, 2013, 11:49:15
Some net surfing on British Bulldog has revealed some interesting facts:

While it appears to have been claimed by the scouts, it was played throughout the white British Commonwealth, and was/is played in other countries – in Germany it is called “Who’s afraid of the Bogeyman?”

The number of initial bulldogs is decided by the players and depends on their number and the size of the playing area. A runner is considered caught if grabbed for long enough for the bulldog to call “British Bulldog, one, two, three” (I now remember that) – some sources state that the runner must be lifted off the ground for that time. Any runners who have not left the start area when the first one reaches ‘Home’ is considered caught anyway.

In this video the runners seem to be identified by carrying a yellow cloth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvaHhqsWr5w

The website ‘Boy Scout Trail’ advises leaders:
“This Game is meant for Boy Scouts. It gets VERY physical. You may want to take your larger scouts aside before the game and advise them about handling smaller scouts”.

Which leads on to how far it is permitted, if I have interpreted correctly:
1.   Objections to the game initially came from parents, concerning minor injuries and torn clothing.
2.   There is no official ban in the UK, but it was increasingly banned in schools following a critical report in the British Medical Journal in June 1985, mentioning the number of serious injuries resulting from the game.
3.   Then, to encourage more physical activity by children, the Local Government Association advised Education Authorities, in September 2008, to encourage the game, among others.
4.   After a surge, it seems to be in decline again – in a survey in April 2011, 29% of teachers questioned said that the game had been banned in their schools.

Are there any KHF members who are currently scout leaders, or who have children in the scouts, who can tell us the stuation today?
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: petermilly on August 23, 2013, 11:59:37
That's right I remember now, in our lot the runners had to be lifted off the ground and that was when you could get around them to the other side. Great game.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Signals99 on August 23, 2013, 23:13:52
As I mentioned in a prior post we played the game in Union Street. We named it "can you cross the
water Mr Crock ?" Basically a version of "British Bulldog" only we all played, girls as well.
Those girls used to get really rough, so I stopped playing ?? :)




Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Ron Stilwell on August 23, 2013, 23:20:18
Doing a little research on the defence of East Kent in WW2, I was interviewing a man who was in the Scouts in Broadstairs, Thanet, in 1939.  He told me that the Broadstairs Scout Group were engaged in filling sand-bags down on the beach at Broadstairs and using a block and tackle to get them up to a lorry on the cliff-top. 
I wonder how many other groups of this type, sea-scouts, boys brigade, etc, volunteered in a similar way.
Just re-posting this query in case anyone knows anything about youth groups volunteering in WW2.
I know they filled sand-bags, dug trenches and built Anderson Shelters, but who, what and when.....?
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: peterchall on August 24, 2013, 08:54:16
Google ‘Boy Scouts in World War 2’ and 'Girl Guides in World War 2’ and there’s lots of information.

This one is particularly pertinent because one of the persons concerned was a guide in Maidstone:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11005064
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: OldMuzza on August 25, 2013, 10:17:03
Like alec ludlow and medwayboy I was in the 17th Medway (West) cubs and scouts. I remember medwayboy as a patrol leader when I “went up” from cubs to scouts, and during my first scout camp that was held at Kingsdown (Deal) in the summer of 1959. During my time with the troop, we camped at Hole Park (Rolvenden); Knowle Park (Sevenoaks) and again at Kingsdown. I only remember camping at Buckmore Park once, during my time with the cubs, and that was a joint camp with the 32nd Medway (West) and in hut accommodation rather than under canvas.

I believe I’m correct in saying that the Group Scout Leader was Ernest Ravenscroft (Ernie) with his wife (Vi)  as “Akela” and at one point a daughter assisted her at cub-pack meetings. I thought that the Ravenscrofts lived in Lester Road - I can remember going to a house in that road which I’m sure was their home, and my 1963 Kelly’s directory shows what seems to be the “right” Ravenscroft family at the address that I recall.

However, the directory shows several Ravenscroft families as living in that general area, including two in Mills Terrace right where Peterchall’s wife remembers them so I wonder whether the family she remembers is possibly not the same as the family involved with the cubs and scouts. Related possibly?

The photograph of “Akela” and two helpers running a stall at a cub event was taken around 1957/8.  I remember going to two events, one of which was held in the grounds of the old rectory on New Road (which I think was where this photograph was taken) and another in Frindsbury that I think was held in the church grounds but I could easily be wrong on that.

District Commissioner Whitehead’s fore-name was, I think, Cecil (rather than Cyril). My memory of him was that he “failed” my “First Class Hike” – one of the tests towards a scout’s “First Class Badge”. This particular test involved a hike covering around 15 miles over two days and included an overnight stay under canvas with the participants (the candidate usually travelled with another scout who was not taking the test) having to be self-sufficient, carrying tent, food, water, cooking equipment etc. The route of the hike was dictated by the examiners, and navigation was via mandatory way-points that were either places or map-references, so map reading was a key skill that was tested. The route was usually not particularly local to “home” – mine was around Cuxton, Halling, and Trottiscliffe whilst the previous week I had accompanied the scout who accompanied me on his own hike that was in the Shalmsford Street – Chartham area near Canterbury. Some tasks were set that had to be performed. At the end of the event, the candidate had to write a log of the event which was sent to the District Commissioner for evaluation.

DC Whitehead failed mine – there was nothing wrong with the narrative of the report – simply that there were insufficient sketches of “items of interest”. The lack of sketches was hardly surprising as I couldn’t draw to save my life then and still can’t! I wasn’t going to walk the route again just to make some very bad drawings to make the man happy, so I ended my days as a scout (school exam time was looming!) as a second-class citizen, never achieving the First Class Badge.

Although I never fully forgave him, he wasn’t wholly responsible for my not achieving that coveted award before leaving scouts  – being able to swim was another test and I still can’t do that either!
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Ron Stilwell on August 25, 2013, 10:22:53
Google ‘Boy Scouts in World War 2’ and 'Girl Guides in World War 2’ and there’s lots of information.

This one is particularly pertinent because one of the persons concerned was a guide in Maidstone:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11005064
Thanks for that Peterchall, and OldMuzza, a very nice story, well told.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Skip1 on October 07, 2013, 17:30:38
44th Medway did indeed start their life at that location. We are now located in Castle Avenue off Delce Road in Matthews Hall. We are still going strong and have approximately 60 children in our care. We still camp out at West Farleigh and can be found there on the last bank holiday in May. I believe the location was found by Charlie Salter going out on his bike looking for suitable locations within a decent walking distance. The boys would then load everything on hand carts and walk out there, have their camp and walk back. How true this is I don't know. I'm sure you would be able to put me right on that. We also still have a photo of Charlie Salter and John Cook, up in the hall. It's nice to read on here from past members about the history of the group I've been with for the last 15 years, I would love to hear more. .
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Mike S on October 13, 2013, 16:04:42
I joined the 44th Medway West in May/June 1956 when I moved from Margate to Rochester. The Skipper was a Mr. Salter, so it must have been the Charlie Salter in the last message. The first time that I attended he picked me up from my home in Rochester High Street and took me to the Scout Hall on the back of his Motor Scooter. I well remember going to camp at West Farleigh, all equipment loaded into the back of a removal lorry, we then all climbed in and sat where we could on top of all the equipment.
What would Health and Safety think of this!!
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: smiler on October 14, 2013, 19:29:05
(http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af310/smiler2/kent/scout.jpg) (http://s1018.photobucket.com/user/smiler2/media/kent/scout.jpg.html)
    28th Medway corner of Breton and Copperfield Rd's Rochester.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: prb on October 15, 2013, 00:00:49
The 28th used the hall at the back of St Margarets hall on the Maidstone Road in
my younger days.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: TonyYoung on December 31, 2013, 02:48:27
This thread is dragging back some memories

I joined 5th Sittingbourne (Holy Trinity) Cubs in 1957 and rose to the rank of 'Sixer' joining the 5th Sitt Scouts - meetings in the Church Hall beside Holy Trinity in Dover Street - Joyce Camburn was Akela in the cubs and her husband Don was Skipper in the Scouts.  For some reason I transferred to the 4th Sittingbourne (Methodist) - meeting behind the Methodist Church in the High Street - Mr Dalby was Scout Leader with Gorden Skinner as ASM
Did my First Class Hike along Hadrian's Wall with Nigel Dalby (son of SM) together with both Scout Masters - but Gorden got ill after leaving Hexham and we had to abandon. Finally did it from Maidstone to Tonbridge. Then on to Senior Scouts - just managed to get my Queens Scout before Senior Scouts changed into Venture Scouts - and sadly Rover Scours vanished forever. In 1970 I joined the Gilwell Service Team (Gilwell Park nr Chingford Essex) and spent many great weekends there until marriage came along and stuffed up some of the social life!)

My uniform is still in my mum's wardrobe back in Sittingbourne - Cub's Leaping Wolf Badge, Scout Cord, Bushman's Thong and the grand Queen's Scout badge (much flashier than the Chief Scouts Award that came later) - and the Maroon epaulets and beret of the Senior Scouts
Made the last Kent Rover Moot at Dartford though - along with Sittingbourne Rovers (my dad was Rover Leader!) and the Dover Rover Scouts who had a pantechnicon to move around and camp in. We had to push start it outside one of the local pubs I remember

Singing was importatnt (set me up well for rugby clubs later on and Hash House Harriers) I don't remember 'Hole in my bucket' at camp fires - Harry Belafonte sang it with ????? on the radio though

As for games, British Bulldog for sure and in Seniors - Chalk Rugby.  A circle drawn at each end of the room, a small piece of chalk in the centre - blow the whistle and 'game on' First team to put a cross in the opposition circle won!
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: oobydooby on December 31, 2013, 13:35:32
aitch, the church hall you went to Cubs in is in Third Avenue, opposite Robert Napier School. Although it was the grammer school back then. I was a scout there circa '63, sadly it closed and so I transefered to the troop in Goudhurst Road, Twydall.

At the time you were at Third Avenue, around 1963, was the Scout leader a shortish weedy guy who used to play a guitar in a pokey little room, sometimes with another chap with a guitar who soon became an assistant leader?  My memory is not so good lately but he may have been the Cub Scout leader.  If so the other man was I.

At the time I lived in Beatty Avenue and it was just a few minutes away from the Church.  I seem to remember the short guy tended to take his guitar more seriously than his Scouting and I certainly remember duetting on guitar with him in the Baptist Church youth club in Green Street and the just round the corner in St Marks youth club.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: yeoman on December 31, 2013, 22:47:32
A Sevenoaks troop (21st I think) for me back in the early 1970s.  British Bulldog was "in" and played in a very small church hall with lots of lovely hard surfaces, although I don't recall anything worse than injured pride.  We also played it at school during PE - very much a blood sport on a par with rugby which at least had rules.

More deadly were the "wide games" played during the summer in Knole Park - two patrols a side and minimal umpiring given the area involved.  The aim was to find the other side's base and capture it, ideally setting off the firework rocket you found there.

Other delights included canoeing, the expeditions alluded to by others - patrol leader pointing out the 10 mile cross country route to us two 10-11 year olds on the map with his jack knife while covertly dragging on a cigarette - and the discovery after two weekends camping out and cooking on a wood fire that chicken isn't one of those meats best eaten "rare".

H&S would have had whole litters of kittens
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Troyboy on January 01, 2014, 12:24:39
St Andrews corner of Rose Street & Cossack Street may be.
I am pretty sure that you are referring to the meeting place of 44th Medway West scouts. Scoutmaster in 1956 was a man by the name of Salter, assisted by a very large chap named Bill Rapley. There was a song we used to sing, "We're The Delce Road Boys", anyone know the full version? I can only remember a small amount of it.
I was a member of the Cub Pack at St Andrews in the mid fifties. British Bulldog was the  first thing after the opening ceremony. The idea was to get the excess energy out of our system. When at the age to be vetted to become a scout, myself and two others were invited to a scout meeting where British Bulldog was played. We were not invited back, "as we did not play British Bulldog in the right spirit" ?. We thought the idea was not to get caught.
Was Ray Salter the name of the Scoutmaster.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: pandy on January 01, 2014, 13:45:09
The 44th Medway West did indeed meet at the hall attached to St Andrews church on the corner of Rose Street. I graduated from cub scout to boy scout in the 1960's and the senior scout master was Charlie Salter who lived in Catherine Street. Fortunately, because Charlie was a strict disciplinarian most of the meetings were taken by the amiable 'Skipper Cook' (Cooks hardware on the Delce) Four patrols of six was the norm so twenty four lads 'playing' British Bulldog in that small hall would now have 'elf and safety' bringing charges. I often limped home down the Delce Road from these meetings although my elder smaller brother remarkably always remained unscathed. Happy days.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: rochester1 on August 19, 2014, 22:34:10
I have read through the postings on this site with interest and sometimes found them to be somewhat wrong with names and dates etc. However that's usually age related! So can be forgiven.
As an ex scout and scout leader of the 24th Medway (Borstal), starting as a cub in the 1940's and leaving as a leader in 1990 I have met almost all of the people named in these articles. I am surprised therefore to find the name of James (Jim) Lees as a former Scout Leader of the 17th Medway West has not been mentioned. Especially with regard to KHF.
Jim was without doubt an 'Individual' when it came to leaders. Irreverent would be the best way to describe him and it was my pleasure to have known him and worked with him. Now we come to his Kent History connection.
Sometime in the 1980's I was contacted by Jim who asked; would I like to join him and his troop on an outing to the Greenwich Maritime Museum. Picnic in the park and a tour of the said museum. I duly accepted his kind offer and one Sunday found myself sitting on the grass eating curled up cheese sandwiches and drinking cold tea from a clapped out flask whilst Jim was perusing the young ladies as they strolled by and awarding points out of 100. Most were in the 90 points range! Having finished the 'bird watching' Jim said; "Follow me" and away we went but not to the front entrance as would be expected.
No! A side door which would not be noticed was approached and Jim knocked loudly on the door which was opened and a gentleman, almost bowing and scraping said; "Good afternoon Mr Lees" with which we were ushered into the holy of holy's, the workshops of the Maritime Museum. There were rigged ships awaiting restoration, some in excess of six feet tall. Ships of the line awaiting re-rigging and others awaiting the bin. But what were we doing here was what I asked myself at that time? All became clear when I asked "Jim what the devil was this all about?". "Well" he explained, "I am the model maker for this museum, at the same time neglecting to tell me he was not only the model maker, but the head model maker for both the Greenwich Maritime Museum and the Victoria and Albert. And as I found out that very evening on a trip to the pub; one of the most famous of authors on rigged ships of the last 600 years or so.
 I was telling a mate about my trip out and he said;" Not James Lees who wrote books about rigging" and I said probably, in my ignorance not realising his importance. And he replied " you lucky bugger!".
Lucky I may have been, but when you are given a whistle stop tour of the Maritime Museum by such an expert, it is not the same as walking round on your own. We passed case after case of wonderful models which Jim indicated were rubbish! And every so often we were allowed to stop and admire a model which Jim reckoned;" First Class"! But I had a smashing time and was shown round by the most famous of men without realising it. I thought he was Jim!
So lads; any of you who were members of the 17th Medway. You don't know the half of it! Check him out. In fact his books are still selling.


 














Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Dave Smith on August 22, 2014, 16:15:50
As I'm new to the Forum, " surfing" is quite interesting. In 1942-45, I was a scout, then senior scout, in the 43rd Medway ( Gillingham County School- now I believe the Howard School at Rainham, do they have a troop?). Six patrols ( I have a photo' of us all marching in the Victory celbrations at Chatham in '45). I was in the Kingfisher patrol ( Swift yet Sure); Pete Kentsbear P.L., Ken Everet Second, " Lucy" Locket, John Boulter, John Noble & self. Scout master was Bob Browning who took us for History. Camping in Hoath Woods, Wigmore ( & getting flooded in the middle of the night!) with regular "damper & twist" competitions in Tank Woods, at the bottom of Darland Banks. In Spring '45, all seniors of Medway Troops were at the R.E. Bridging Camp at Wouldham for a week end of competitions. Happy days. Across the road in 3rd Avenue there was an Air Scout Troop at St. Pauls church.
Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Invicta Alec on November 14, 2014, 19:24:55
Like alec ludlow and medwayboy I was in the 17th Medway (West) cubs and scouts. I remember medwayboy as a patrol leader when I “went up” from cubs to scouts, and during my first scout camp that was held at Kingsdown (Deal) in the summer of 1959. During my time with the troop, we camped at Hole Park (Rolvenden); Knowle Park (Sevenoaks) and again at Kingsdown. I only remember camping at Buckmore Park once, during my time with the cubs, and that was a joint camp with the 32nd Medway (West) and in hut accommodation rather than under canvas.

I believe I’m correct in saying that the Group Scout Leader was Ernest Ravenscroft (Ernie) with his wife (Vi)  as “Akela” and at one point a daughter assisted her at cub-pack meetings. I thought that the Ravenscrofts lived in Lester Road - I can remember going to a house in that road which I’m sure was their home, and my 1963 Kelly’s directory shows what seems to be the “right” Ravenscroft family at the address that I recall.

OldMuzza,

Thank you so much for your comments on the picture of Vi Ravenscroft. I had forgotten her first name but instantly recognised her on the photograph.
I know this is an old post but I've been living abroad for 3 years. I've rejoined the forum, but delighted to see some of my old posts are still showing.

Invicta Alec a.k.a. Alec Ludlow.



Title: Re: Cubs and Scouts
Post by: Andy144 on March 03, 2015, 17:13:01
Anyone here remember the Riverview Park Air Scouts?. I started off in the cubs in Riverview first then moved on to join the Air Scouts. We met initially at the scout hall near St Aidan's Church (must have been about early 1970s), then moved up to the scout hut at Shorne. We always seemed to be raising funds for our own scout hut, although it did finally get built on Riverview, I never got to see it! Happy days!
Andy Young.