Day to Day => Residential => Topic started by: oldsunset on May 01, 2010, 17:30:55

Title: Deeds - Fountain Cottage, Marine Parade - Delamark Banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 01, 2010, 17:30:55
original old deeds to Rredan place, Fountain Cottage, Marine Parade & Aurora Villas, 1922. From my collection of STUFF.

Cottages still there in front of K's casino opposit Berridge Rd. Redan Terrace still has plaque as does Fountain Cottage, not sure where Aurora Villas were (are), possiblly now the snooker club building.

Schedule gives first owner in 1833 as Delamark Banks (they must have been new then).
Delamark bought them (from the builder?) and appears to have handed them onto his nephew, Edward Richard Rupert George Banks in 1855.

The seller in 1922 is of interest, Walter John Filer, gives his address at the time in Hampshire living in a house called "Shurland" in Maxwell Road, Bournemouth, occupation Gentleman. He might have had more Island connections, Filer Rd, Halfway maybe.


(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3139/4568604250_4eec29eec4_b.jpg)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4567970409_c59fa1b2cb_b.jpg)
Title: Re:Deeds - Fountain Cottage,Mmarine Parade - Delamark Banks interest
Post by: busyglen on May 04, 2010, 16:04:18
That's interesting reading!

Regarding Aurora Villa, I looked at the 1901 Street Directory, and this is how it would appear to lie.

On left from the Broadway, (steps to the promenade), Redan Terrace, 1 (sub post office), 2, 3, 4, 5. Then Aurora Villa, (Joseph William Shrubsall). Then steps to the promenade.......then Rock Cottage and Rock Cottages. So it does appear that it would have been where the Amusement Arcade is now.

 
Title: Re: Deeds - Fountain Cottage, Marine Parade - Delamark Banks interest
Post by: busyglen on May 05, 2010, 14:39:50
Upon reflection, (and talking about it with my husband) I think I was getting confused by Neptune Terrace.  I'd completely forgotten about the houses below the Terrace, which is where Redan Place etc. was.  I can't picture it at the moment, but next time I go down into the town, I'll try and have another look, as I am not sure whether there was another house after No.5 Redan Place. 

From memory, I suppose it could be where the building is at the end of Neptune Terrace that was a snooker hall at one time, and it had the large garden that ran the length of Redan Place.  It certainly followed No. 5 Redan Place on the 1901 Street Directory.

Title: Re:Deeds - Fountain Cottage, Marine Parade - Delamark Banks interest
Post by: Martin H on May 05, 2010, 23:21:33
I will look through my records, When I was a lad, I knew a man called Mr Cookney who lived in Fountain Cottage, he was very old and was the fourth generation to live there, he had no children so left me his papers. I have a picture of the fountain somewere and of the Post Office that was run by a J Lingham and also a card addresed to Mr D Court in 1877. I also rememder stuff about Bath Cottage at the end of Neptune Terrace. I have had a quick look in my files and now realise that Mr Cookney was decended from the Court family that are mentioned on the deed, so have scanned some pics that you will like.
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae13/MartinDavidH/Pictures%20for%20Kent%20forum/RedanHouse2.jpg)
The caption he gave me for this is Mrs Cookney, Fountains Cottage, probably his mother or grandmother? Do not know the man`s name.
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae13/MartinDavidH/Pictures%20for%20Kent%20forum/RedanHouse1.jpg)
The caption for this one is No 5 Redan Place (Fountains Cottage) before alterations. Painting on wall is John Court (builder) seated is Daniel Court and standing is his brother John Court. The photo is from around 1880? I think he told me his gradfather and great grandfather are here but I do not know if he ment John or Daniel. He told me old Mr Court was a Civil Engineer and built the Flushing Pier and so could have worked for the Banks Family. Mr Cookney was in his 80's when I knew him in the 70's so would have been born in the 1890's. I will see what else I can find.
Title: Re: Deeds - Fountain Cottage, Marine Parade - Delamark Banks interest
Post by: busyglen on May 06, 2010, 14:50:50
I think this looks like the large garden that ran along the back of the other houses in Redan Place that you could look down on from Neptune Terrace.  I can't imagine a garden that size anywhere else along that part as it is quite high.

Thanks for that, I think they are great photos.
Title: Re: Deeds - Fountain Cottage, Marine Parade - Delamark Banks interest
Post by: colin haggart on May 06, 2010, 22:41:21
Two of my photos showing how much the trees have grown and the air raid shelter still in situ.

(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk90/colinhaggart/Photos%20volume%20two/SheernessFountainairraidshelter1.jpg)

(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk90/colinhaggart/Photos%20volume%20two/SheernessFountainairraidshelter3.jpg)
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: ellenkate on May 07, 2010, 10:17:12

Fascinating deeds and photos -  here is the 81 census:

Redan Place,  Minster in Sheppey Census 1881:
Film 134 1232 RG11 0979 / 105/ p.43:
Daniel COURT  head  Unmarried   46  Grocer, retired  born Sheerness
John  COURT   brother Unmarried   62  Surveyor  b. Sheerness
Sarah A. HARBEN  cousin Unmarried  female  47  Housekeeper (Dom)  b. Kingston, Surrey

All are mentioned on the deeds



Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 07, 2010, 10:21:28
well done martin H...definately the best photos ive seen of fountain cottage, the 2nd photo is truely fantastic and must date c1860 prior to the upgrade in 1878, exeptional early social photo for this time..so pleased you have it safe..........there was an old lady living there in the 1980s called cook or cookney as i used to take her meals on wheels her door was in the side alley (gated) between Redan & fountain, it leads into her kitchen, the inside was tiny her kitchen was basically half under the pavement at the back, and as the extension to fountain cottage was also the side fasade we see today..some of her rooms were internal with no windows, she called them the snugs,

for any folks not familar with fountain cottage this really early photo below shows fountain cottage as in your last photo martin H before the house door was added to the side and you can see the arches and pillars where the murial was painted, there was no house where the snooker club is at this date and i guess folks strolling the prom saw it as a sweet little tourist attraction

What was the murial of ? there appears to be a guy in a top hat and the builder is possing infront of it quite proudly, surely he didnt commision a murial just of himself, perhaps the murial showed Banks and their building achievements ? anyone know more about the subject of the murial i would love to hear from you

this view must have been as delamark banks knew it in his day...love it
photolink;
http://www.pbase.com/luckytrev/image/93223392 (http://www.pbase.com/luckytrev/image/93223392)
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 07, 2010, 10:30:05
just notice in the photo link i just added that the roof line shows redan and fountain had back gardens originally too, and were just 2 up 2 downs, i guess they all had extensions at some time to add bathrooms and kitchens as the backyards have gone

also interesting to see that the plaque for fountain cottage gives the date 1878, the date the extension was added rather than the original date in the deeds of 1833
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 07, 2010, 10:50:40
The murial and arches removed c1900 and new front door to fountain cott added same time as
new house built at the opposit end of fountain cottage garden  (now the snooker club)Aurora villa ?
They must have shared the garden
photo link; http://www.pbase.com/luckytrev/image/113568683 (http://www.pbase.com/luckytrev/image/113568683)



another puzzling postcard shows the newly added house but what is the tall
white cylinder in front of the house on the slope ?..an early public urinal ?
http://www.pbase.com/luckytrev/image/118101100 (http://www.pbase.com/luckytrev/image/118101100)
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: seafordpete on May 07, 2010, 13:28:59
what is the tall
white cylinder in front of the house on the slope http://www.pbase.com/luckytrev/image/118101100 (http://www.pbase.com/luckytrev/image/118101100)

Looks very like what in Paris are called Collonne Maurice and used for advertising, Some modern versions around too- saw one in Brighton last week.
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: busyglen on May 07, 2010, 18:26:01
Thanks for showing these fantastic photos!  Although I have looked at Trevs site, until someone raises a query, you don't actually absorb what you are seeing every time.  Great stuff!
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: Martin H on May 07, 2010, 19:09:16
Just to clarify, Mr Cookney gave me the pics so it was his wife wo lived there in the 1980's The picture of the 2 men would be his grandfather and his gradfathers brother John and daniel Court. The Murial is of there father John Court the Elder. I also have some pepers relating to Bath House with the name John Court on I will look the them. It is a list of charges for hot or cold baths. Bath cottage is I believe the last house on the end of Neptune terrace.I will go through the Cookney stuff when I get time end see what else there is.
I think it is stagering that we have put phots against these names on the deeds, it shows the power of this type of site. Mr Cookney was a member of the Sheppey Local History society and he would  have been delighted by your interest in his family.Will try not to keep you waiting to long!!
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: ellenkate on May 07, 2010, 20:21:28


  here is the 81 census:
Redan Place,  Minster in Sheppey Census 1881:
Film 134 1232 RG11 0979 / 105/ p.43:
Daniel COURT  head  Unmarried   46  Grocer, retired  born Sheerness
John  COURT   brother Unmarried   62  Surveyor  b. Sheerness
Sarah A. HARBEN  cousin Unmarried  female  47  Housekeeper (Dom)  b. Kingston, Surrey
    All these people are mentioned on the deeds
>

Note today:
The two men listed above, Daniel and John COURT, according to the above Census, were NOT married in 1881 - and did not have wives living in the household. 
Maybe Daniel married after this date, did you say one of them was a grandfather?  Perhaps it was another brother??

Ellenkate


Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: Paul on May 07, 2010, 20:26:27

another puzzling postcard shows the newly added house but what is the tall
white cylinder in front of the house on the slope ?..an early public urinal ?


Ive had a really good look and cant find anything for that the "cylinder".
Its not a urinal as they were bigger??
I think it could be something to do with the Trams?
I've seen similar things that were used for storing tram related things.
I think they were called "blocks and shoes".
If a tram broke down it was a sort of spares store?
I've also seen them at seaside resorts with posters and advertising on them,But they may have been modern copies?
Its a could be? :)
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 08, 2010, 00:27:35
brilliant mr H,.. strange (or big headed) that he had such a public portrait painted of himself. i didnt know about the bath house that is really interesting i'd love to hear more about that PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE
thanks paul for offering the tram store idea, i wonder why it was so tall, could it have had electric for the over head tram thingy ? sorry not sure what the arm on top of a tram is called.

this has turned out to be a really interesting post to read, such lovely photos
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: Martin H on May 09, 2010, 22:41:29
OK as you asked nicely!
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae13/MartinDavidH/Pictures%20for%20Kent%20forum/BathCottage.jpg)
I do not know very mch about these items. Bath Cottage could have been the end house along from Neptune terrace , and I was told it was once the only place in sheerness you could get a bath.John Court had many businesses on the go it would seem.
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 11, 2010, 21:18:16
oh my...AMAZING..thanks so much for showing this card.. this has made my day, fantastic to see such a rarity ..i had no idea that the terrace started life like this isnt it fabulous..gush gush..i expect i'm not the only one who will be bowled over to learn about this....you are a treasure bless you..
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: busyglen on May 12, 2010, 16:02:22
That's brilliant to see those pictures.  I'm a bit puzzled though....it says on the card `Sea Bathing Establishment'.  I can see from the actual sketch that it shows the old horse drawn bathing huts in the water, which were used so that the ladies etc. could change in the hut, but the references to the `warm' and `cold' baths, makes me wonder if they were `sea water' baths.  Were there `bathrooms' in the house where salt water was used, or were they normal baths?  I'm really intrigued now. :)
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 12, 2010, 17:48:12
me puzzled too although we will probably never know, at this period in time (c1800 ?) most folk wouldnt have had piped fresh water indoors unless they had a lot of pennies, it would have been so expensive to get the water along marine parade to the house which would have stood alone then as i think most of the surrounding houses in the area werent built until the 1830s-60s ?
Anyone know when the 3 story houses in Alma Rd were built or Shrimp terrace ? I think Neptune terrace is abit older than them and holly house is the oldest (opp top of seager rd?)
i wouldnt fancy paying for a sea water shower, i'd need another after to wash off the salt
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: busyglen on May 12, 2010, 18:36:45

i wouldnt fancy paying for a sea water shower, i'd need another after to wash off the salt

Me neither....and not just because of the salt!  :)

Will have to do a bit of searching to see what I can find.

Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: Martin H on May 12, 2010, 22:07:20
i do not know the answer to this, so how about some early prints of neptune terrace redan house and the Windmill I will post them now so you dont have to plead !!
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae13/MartinDavidH/Pictures%20for%20Kent%20forum/neptuneterrace1.jpg)
(http://i953.photobucket.com/albums/ae13/MartinDavidH/Pictures%20for%20Kent%20forum/neptuneterrace.jpg)
I dont think they need explaining? see how you get on
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 12, 2010, 23:27:40
omg...thank you, to think i owned 5 constantia terrace and never saw this pic..love it heaps...as the deeds to redan show 1833 as the first date on the schedual these prints must date just after this but before fountain cottage was re-built in 1879 and the house added at the other end of its garden(snooker club)
what a treat to see the windmill pre seaview hotel days..ive never seen it in all its glory before, only from the painting done by batzer from his own guess work which ive never liked.
i must try to track down T.M.Rigg..were these prints from an old folio of the island ?
big thanks from me and most sheppey folk for sharing these precious images mr H.
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: busyglen on May 13, 2010, 09:47:53
Thank you so much for showing us these.  They are brilliant, and have got both my hubby and I searching our minds remembering how this area has changed even in our times.  :)
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 13, 2010, 10:12:43
yes lovely images, can be dated between 1854 & 1879,  constantia terrace was build 1854 (alma Rd) shown in print but fountain cottage side extention added 1879 and not shown in print.
the bath house would appear to be the house to the left of neptune terrace,(now converted flats) on the end of the row by the steps to the beach.
 if you google view the roof lines you can see it clearly, neptune terrace has too many chimneys for the bath house and different shaped roofs, next time i get back "down south" i will have a hunt with my camera over the back sea wall.
I remember the house end of Redan place was once a wet fish shop, the building has strange castilations and looked like a a 1930s tart up
for anyone who hasnt seen it on google maps heres some links to help you get your bearings;
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=neptune+terrace+sheerness&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.96579,67.456055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Neptune+Terrace,+Sheerness+ME12,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.441027,0.769861&spn=0,0.004117&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.440426,0.769904&panoid=-3SbtDx91vMqyIxV7BKHtA&cbp=12,12.03,,0,1.48 (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=neptune+terrace+sheerness&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.96579,67.456055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Neptune+Terrace,+Sheerness+ME12,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.441027,0.769861&spn=0,0.004117&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.440426,0.769904&panoid=-3SbtDx91vMqyIxV7BKHtA&cbp=12,12.03,,0,1.48)

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=neptune+terrace+sheerness&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.96579,67.456055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Neptune+Terrace,+Sheerness+ME12,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.44056,0.76881&spn=0,0.004117&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.440515,0.769175&panoid=kpGjiZRBFeHV9vygpv22tg&cbp=12,46.35,,1,-3.1  (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=neptune+terrace+sheerness&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.96579,67.456055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Neptune+Terrace,+Sheerness+ME12,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.44056,0.76881&spn=0,0.004117&z=19&layer=c&cbll=51.440515,0.769175&panoid=kpGjiZRBFeHV9vygpv22tg&cbp=12,46.35,,1,-3.1)
The arrow points to the bath house building

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=neptune+terrace+sheerness&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.96579,67.456055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Neptune+Terrace,+Sheerness+ME12,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.440684,0.77033&spn=0.001224,0.004117&t=h&z=19  (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=neptune+terrace+sheerness&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=18.96579,
67.456055&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Neptune+Terrace,+Sheerness+ME12,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.440684,0.77033&spn=0.001224,0.004117&t=h&z=19)
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 13, 2010, 10:24:46

Fascinating deeds and photos -  here is the 81 census:

Redan Place,  Minster in Sheppey Census 1881:
Film 134 1232 RG11 0979 / 105/ p.43:
Daniel COURT  head  Unmarried   46  Grocer, retired  born Sheerness
John  COURT   brother Unmarried   62  Surveyor  b. Sheerness
Sarah A. HARBEN  cousin Unmarried  female  47  Housekeeper (Dom)  b. Kingston, Surrey

All are mentioned on the deeds<
br />
There might be a family link with the Banks, any Banks family researchers might have a hunt with these names in Surrey to see how they tie in




Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: busyglen on May 13, 2010, 15:48:43
Thanks Oldsunset!  I've never really played around with Google Maps (lack of time) but at least it has reminded me of how it looks now.  I go into Sheerness twice a week, but don't often go along the Broadway/Marine Parade.  I was on the point of asking hubby to take me (I don't drive) but these views are much better. 

I've really enjoyed this thread.  Hope you get some answers.  :)
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: Alan on May 13, 2010, 21:44:17
The bath house was the other end of neptune terrace now K's casino,the flats next to the jetty were only built about 30 years ago prior to that there was a cafe and a penny arcade there, the building with the castilations was a post office in the earlier days.
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: Martin H on May 13, 2010, 21:56:58
I have just checked the back of the print of neptune terrace that was part of the Cookney Papers and he has written the following :-
Neptune Terace Built 1853 by John & Thomas Court. I was told by Mr Cookney that they build the Railway pier in Queenborogh. I have no reason to question anything that he told me.
I have identified 10 engravings in the TM Rig set so there may be more supprises to come they all date from the 1860 or there abouts.
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: Paul on May 14, 2010, 11:39:16
Quote Martin H.
"I have identified 10 engravings in the TM Rig set so there may be more supprises to come they all date from the 1860 or there abouts."

 :)
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: Alan on May 14, 2010, 12:28:20
Latest on fountain cottage there is a lot of building work going on,the fountain has been removed, and walls front and back have been raised so it is no longer possible to look over them.
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on May 14, 2010, 13:01:28
horrified !!!!!!

they deserve a dam good thrashing

wish the times guardian would do a past and present write up to put these new owners to shame
god i could bang on their door i'm so cross

i hope they didnt smash it up or they will be the ones crying, just found out regancy stone fountains sell for up to ?10K !!!
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: Martin H on May 20, 2010, 18:54:19
I have always been puzled by the arches on the end of Redan Place. they are very grand and serve no purpose. I now have a thought that they were re cycled from a much grander building. This is what we probably know
John court was a builder, he built Neptune terrace redan house and the Flushing Pier in queenborough. He knew Delamark Banks.
delamark had Warden Church tower build from the stone from London Bridge. The Banks family came to Sheerness to build the dockyard that was designed by Renie. Renie was the architect of the London Bridge that replaced the old one. The materials from the bridge would have been most easily removed by river. How much of this material ended up on sheppey. Was any used to build the Dockyard? was any used to build Neptune terrace. We will probably never know
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: seafordpete on May 21, 2010, 08:42:21
Latest on fountain cottage there is a lot of building work going on,the fountain has been removed, and walls front and back have been raised so it is no longer possible to look over them.

There is a limit on wall height joining the road-think it is 4'6" and 6' on any other boundary (or metric equivalents) Might be worth letting the planning dept know
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: colin haggart on June 02, 2010, 23:06:49
The Fountain Cottage has new walls now, front and back.

My photo of the front.
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk90/colinhaggart/s4wall.jpg)
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: busyglen on June 03, 2010, 15:53:41
That wall looks awful!  It won't be long before the cement starts blowing, especially if they paint it over.
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: colin haggart on June 03, 2010, 17:58:50
That wall looks awful!

I agree, Busyglen, not much better round the back.
Title: Re: deeds fountain cottage marine parade- delamark banks interest
Post by: oldsunset on September 27, 2011, 12:08:50
Just to clarify, Mr Cookney gave me the pics so it was his wife wo lived there in the 1980's The picture of the 2 men would be his grandfather and his gradfathers brother John and daniel Court. The Murial is of there father John Court the Elder. I also have some pepers relating to Bath House with the name John Court on I will look the them. It is a list of charges for hot or cold baths. Bath cottage is I believe the last house on the end of Neptune terrace.I will go through the Cookney stuff when I get time end see what else there is.
I think it is stagering that we have put phots against these names on the deeds, it shows the power of this type of site. Mr Cookney was a member of the Sheppey Local History society and he would  have been delighted by your interest in his family.Will try not to keep you waiting to long!!

i remember mrs cookney well, i used to deliver her meals on wheels back in the 80's, i always delivered hers last so we could chat over tea and she showed me heaps of island documents and postcards she had, lovely old lady