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Author Topic: Aveling & Porter  (Read 18893 times)

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Offline grandarog

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #45 on: September 09, 2017, 20:31:01 »
The Aveling at the Brook is a single cylinder.  It is started by lighting a so called fizzer, which essentially looks like a cigarette.  This is held in a special holder inserted into the end of the cylnder. 

Just the same as the old Single Cylinder Field Marshall`s. Supposed to fit a cartridge to start but they cost money, so a bit of rolled up rag lit and stuffed in the cartridge breech instead and 2 blokes to spin it up.

Online howard

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2017, 19:24:41 »
I know of a roller driver who, when the single drive pin fell out of the wheel while going down hill (thus disengaging the drive and rendering brakes and engine braking inoperative) dropped his scarifier to stop. it was early one morning and nobody was about so he found and replaced the pin, raised the scarifier, rolled the damaged surface and went on his way!

Offline Sentinel S4

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2017, 14:17:36 »
The Scarafier (? spelling) was used for ripping up pre-tar Macadam roads. They would rip (Scarafy) the surface then roll it flat again to get the surface back and fill pot-holes. They can be adjusted for depth and are generally fitted to the back axle of the roller, (either side). Sadly when tarred surfaces came into being the norm they fell out of use.

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Offline MartinR

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2017, 22:41:55 »
grandarog ...

Without evidence I can only go on my memory, of 45+ years ago.  I was the cranker, not yet old enough to drive (officially), so it is possible I was either misinformed, or have misremembered.  I do remember it as a pig, it had a habit of kicking back on occasions, so you always had to stand carefully.  IIRC there were decompressors like a diesel and it was when the driver closed them it could kick back - or is my memory totally shot?  5:1 would not be enough to diesel, I agree.  However don't get hung up on octanes, they are only relevant when compressing the charge.  Inject at/near TDC removes any issue of pre-ignition, witness that older (absolutely NOT modern) diesel cars could apparently run on petrol or petrol/oil mixes.

Offline DaveTheTrain

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2017, 22:37:14 »
The Aveling at the Brook is a single cylinder.  It is started by lighting a so called fizzer, which essentially looks like a cigarette.  This is held in a special holder inserted into the end of the cylnder.  The engine is decompressed by lifting a handle and the flywheel spun over by an air start which is derived from air from a cylinder on the back of the engine.  It should start in a few spins. 

I had a similar one for  a few years before getting my steamer.

Offline grandarog

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2017, 20:06:00 »
Martin .... :)   
           I don`t wish to be pedantic but I will call you out about Fordson Standard Tractors. The Petrol /TVO system was Not Diesel.
           The tractors had a very low compression ratio around 5 to 1 to suit the old low 95/98 octane petrol and even lower 50/55 octane TVO. 
           The tractor could not fire from cold on TVO, hence the need for a small tank of petrol for starting and running up to working temperature. (woe betide you if you forgot to switch over and ran out of petrol. Even when the engine was hot it would very rarely start on TVO. The spark plugs and ignition were still required to keep the engine running.
          There was no way enough compression for it to ever diesel.

Offline MartinR

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2017, 18:12:42 »
The Ruston flyer makes it clear that it is a "Diesel" or "compression ignition" engine.  The old ones burnt nearly anything, it was only with the advent of modern diesels after WWII that they started to become fussy.  Petrol was much more expensive and was only used for starting.  My experience with starting something similar goes back to an old Fordson tractor used by the Kennet & Avon Trust in the 1970s.  You started hand cranking the cold engine with the petrol supply and spark plugs enabled.  Once it fired, you allowed it to run up to speed and temperature before switching over to Tractor Vaporising Oil (TVO) which was basically paraffin.  Once on TVO it was a pure diesel, no plugs required.

In the flyer it mentions starting the smallest rollers with a vaporiser.  This system was used on a lot of single cylinder diesels and consisted of a small chamber into which the fuel was injected.  The chamber was heated by a blow torch before starting to crank.  Once running the heats of prior combustion and of compression kept it hot enough.

Offline grandarog

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2017, 18:08:11 »
Source Geograph ,Chris Whippett.

Offline 80sChild

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2017, 14:50:46 »
Here's one attached to an early oil engined A & P.The earlier ones would have been of similar appearance.The depth would have been adjusted using the wheel

(Image removed from quote.)

Now THAT is just like the one at the Brook Pumping station. Is the same kind of design, almost identical.  :)

Offline conan

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2017, 14:18:56 »
Not sure but try page 9 of this link.It's not an A & P but the principle should be the same

http://beamishtransportonline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Ruston-Hornsby-Crude-Oil-Rollersopt.pdf
To remain ignorant of what happened before you were born is to remain a child......Cicero

Offline Dave Smith

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2017, 13:39:03 »
I'm intrigued by the "Crude" oil. Presumably this had a burner to heat the water to steam, which used 3500 sec "really thick" oil much the same as a lot of hospitals used for their boilers many years ago? As it was so thick, you had to have a heat trace on the pipes/tank to make it flow well enough for the " spinning cup" or? on the burner.

Offline conan

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2017, 00:24:34 »
Here's one attached to an early oil engined A & P.The earlier ones would have been of similar appearance.The depth would have been adjusted using the wheel

To remain ignorant of what happened before you were born is to remain a child......Cicero

Offline MartinR

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #33 on: September 07, 2017, 21:18:00 »
The scarification unit would be the rod or rods you see at the back of a roller to scratch the surface.  It was used to break up a surface either prior to excavation, or to ensure a good "key" for a replacement surface.  For a modern take on the same task see http://www.bobcat.com/attachments/scarifier/features.

Offline 80sChild

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #32 on: September 07, 2017, 14:32:50 »
In case anyone interested I think there's an Aveling and Porter steam roller on display at the Brook Pumping Station in Chatham (next to the multi-story car park).
I remember going there a lot back in the 90's and you can still see it displayed in their courtyard.

Might be worth checking out for enthusiasts.  :)

Offline Signals99

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2017, 11:57:27 »
Hi just a point of family interest, my uncle  Bert Newman  served an apprenticeship with Aveling and Porter and worked for them all his working life, I think he ended  his days with them in some form of management position. As a lad my mother told me he was responsible for the idea and production of the scarification unit fitted to road rollers, any idea as to what a scarafication unit was or did ?
I never actually met the chap (family feud, that unfortunately lasted a life time) but would love to have information on him, or his work.

 

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