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Author Topic: Aveling & Porter  (Read 18828 times)

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manokent

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2011, 12:59:29 »



manokent

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2011, 11:44:29 »
I can well recall the A&P steam rollers in Kent. The drivers towed their accommodation wagon (as Fred Dibnah) whilst they worked the area so I got to know some of them well.
They had to frantically turn the wheel to turn the massive chain operated front rollers. lorries were restricted to max 20 mph at that time - i wonder what the max speed was for a roller?
In those days we had proper summers, hot with molten tar on the roads. They rolled the large yellow chippings into the tar - hence permanently scarred knees and tarry summer sandals - not good for marbles either.

I'm ok on steam engines but this internet thing!  If anyone is interested and will please help I will post a picture of grandad's A&P steam dray.(tried insert image paste etc but no luck)



Offline Sentinel S4

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2011, 23:31:16 »
That is William Bray on the footplate and his son at the steering position. Yes Thomas Aveling would have been at the trials. 
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Offline unfairytale

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2011, 23:11:37 »
I read or was told that Thomas Aveling was at Broadmead Farm, Folkestone in 1858 when Bray tested his patented wheels, Bray also towed some heavy guns up Dover Hill.

Here's Bray's engine of 1858.
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Offline Sentinel S4

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2011, 22:52:05 »
Hi,
   I have been reading up a bit more. I will have to start a new thread on Mr. Bray of Folkestone, a very interesting man. I should imagine that Bray and Aveling knew of, if not knew, each other. Bray started to use gears for the main drive before Aveling but only built or had built a few engines that would be recognised as such today. His second generation engines went to outside frames and stopped using the boiler as the main structural element of the vehicle. I think that there was a mutual exchange of ideas between almost all of these great men, Brunel and Robert Stephenson were great friends even though they differed on a lot of ideas (track gauge being one). Aveling's early engines were built by Clayton and Shuttleworth to their Patents but they used some of Aveling's patents for their own machines, mutual benefit to both companies. This could get complex, so on that note I will say that I soon will start a new thread on Mr. William Bray. Regards, Sentinel S4.
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Offline sheppey_bottles

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2011, 22:24:50 »
Cheryl said the name across the canopy side was the company name that Vic purchased the engine from. She said the engine was a lovely green colour but the sign was a horrid light blue? and did not match in at all. Once again thanks for your help...She has just been having a look through the photos but there are none of her with the engine :-( But we did find some lovely shots of the North Yorkshire moors railway near Grosmont where our friends live..the trains used to run straight passed there house near Egton bridge, what a lovely view and sound that was as they came up the valley near the Esk ( good for Salmon)..but thats another story and it aint Kent.

Offline DaveTheTrain

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2011, 22:00:11 »
I have just shown my wife the picture and she says that it looks like Old Vic but thinks the name along the canopy is not what she remembers. She said that she remembers having to walk on the opposite side wheel to move the axle back,,sort of walking the wheel off, if that make sense. She was also in the local paper with this engine and was very annoyed with the reporter as he smeared her face with grease before he took a picture. What sixteen year old wants her face smeared with grease in a photo :) Thanks so much for your help, both of you, if she gets a photo from her mum I will put it on. SB.

Hi SB,

The name on the canopy board will be different.  It is common practice for engine owners to put their own name on boards... in this case Colin has his name up since he now owns the engine.  It would have been Vic Roberts in the 1970s.  My photo shows the engine in its current paint, with its new name and canopy boards. Pic was this year.  `Tis the same engine though...

SA.


Offline sheppey_bottles

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2011, 21:53:42 »
I have just shown my wife the picture and she says that it looks like Old Vic but thinks the name along the canopy is not what she remembers. She said that she remembers having to walk on the opposite side wheel to move the axle back, ,sort of walking the wheel off, if that make sense. She was also in the local paper with this engine and was very annoyed with the reporter as he smeared her face with grease before he took a picture. What sixteen year old wants her face smeared with grease in a photo :) Thanks so much for your help, both of you, if she gets a photo from her mum I will put it on. SB.

Offline DaveTheTrain

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 21:33:25 »
SentinelS4 is spot on, names come and go which can make tracking down engines difficult. 

However "Old Vic" is shown in the 1982 register.  It has since been renamed "King George" and is owned by a freind of mine.  The details are engine number 10271, reg no ME2103.  Built in 1922 and is a 10 ton roller.  It had a new firebox in about 2002.   It can be seen very often at Chatham Dockyard steam rallies.

A pic for you as it is now:

Shot


Offline Sentinel S4

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 21:09:02 »
Hi, ShottendenAveling might know of the engine. Canopies come and go and so do names, it makes life interesting for research. I am just checking up on Bray at the moment. Maybe another thread................. Sentinel S4.
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Offline unfairytale

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 21:03:40 »
Didn't Thomas Aveling copy some of his designs from a Folkestone engineer called Bray?
When you've got your back to wall, there's only one thing to do and that's to turn around and fight. (John Major)
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Offline sheppey_bottles

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2011, 21:03:17 »
Thanks for posting the pics sentinel S4 but it is none of those I am afriad, but thanks all the same that is kind of you. I showed my wife and she says that it was a road roller as in pic1, but had large rear wheels as in pic3 with a full canopy over. She drove it up Detling hill to help promote the fair at Detling that year and of course as her birthday treat..you could drive one when you reached sixteen. She said she is 100% it was called the Old Vic and the owners name was Vic Roberts by the way. She think sher mum may have a photo but the trouble is they live in france and are not that great with computers etc. It would have been September 76 roughly.

Offline Sentinel S4

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2011, 19:31:15 »
I have found three pics of Avelings that could fit the bill. My thought is that it is the roller as she was in Kent for many years and I last saw her at Shepherdswell in the 1990's. I got these from the internet so I am sorry if they are too small.





All three are called Victoria. Regards, Sentinel S4.
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Offline sheppey_bottles

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Re: Aveling & Porter
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2011, 18:01:35 »
Would you or anyone have a picture of the Aveling and Porter Engine 'Old Vic' I think it was called or maybe just Vic, my wife drove this to Detling on her sixteenth birthday as a treat. The engine belonged to a distant relative of ours who has long since passed away. Looked on the net but could not find it.

Offline Sentinel S4

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Aveling & Porter
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 17:21:56 »
Many years ago I was shown this plate outside of Ruckinge Village hall. Since then it has deteriated and now looks very scruffy and unkempt, 36 years have gone and it looks like paint has passed it by.



I am sorry for the poor camera work, but I got it all in and legible. Why is it here? What is the significance of this plate in an obscure English Village?

Thomas Aveling was born in 1824 in Cambridgeshire. Sadly his Father died soon after and his Mother later married a Rochester Clergyman who taught the young lad with Bible and Birch Cane, more of the latter than former if accounts are to be believed. When he was of age he was Apprenticed to a farmer near Ruckinge where he excelled. He soon took on a farm of his own, Court Lodge, and was found to be very good at repairing the farm implements of the day. He then opened up a workshop in Rochester, 1850, not sure of the location but would not be supprised if it has just been demolished. He was at the time working on the portable engines then in vogue and from one of these he built his first steam plough. Sadly there are no images of this in known existance. For the making of this machine he was given 300 Guineas, that is an indication of how important any advance in the improvement to ploughing was then. He then started to adapt Clayton and Shuttleworth portable engines to be self propelling status with a horse steering. Drive was by chain to one of the rear wheels via a reduction gear. Very soon it was realised that this machine could work without the horse so the shafts were drawn together and a fifth wheel with tiller steering added. The engine was over the firebox and there was no footplate for the driver. What these engine did for coal and water I really don't know. I can only think that they either hauled a cart with stores or the stores were hauled by horses behind. All of this time the engines were built by a third party to Avelings designs. This first engine was built in 1858 but by '59 Aveling had several patents out for these machines and he had built a recogniseable modern engine complete with a footplate with water and coal storage but still with the fifth wheel steering. This was no longer done by pulling the horse shafts together but was of Aveling's own patant design. By 1861 the cylinder had been moved to the front of the boiler, in the smokebox at first, and the Aveling works had been established where we all knew it by Rochester Bridge. These early engines suffered from the crankshaft and gearing shafts being mounted on brackets either riveted or bolted to the firebox top. The problem was that with the engine working the forces would wear the bolts and rivets leading to leaks and loose mountings. It was because of this that Aveling came up with his most important patent, this was for Horn Plates. These are in effect the firebox sides extended uo and back. This allowed the engine to become pat of the boiler and more rigid in fixing. It also allowed the hind axle to become one piece and both hind wheels to drive. This also lead to the use of differentials and suspension and the placement of a winch thereby making the steam engine far more useful for general work. The steersman was still out front with his tiller and wheel. Very soon the chain was lost and gearing becam the favoured drive and the steering wheel was replaced by worm driven steering gear from the footplate. Thus by 1870 was born the Modern Traction engine.

 Around 1865 Aveling was again making waves by building Rollers. The first of his rollers bore no resemblance to what we all deem to be a 'steam roller'. They were big, heavy and, to modern eyes, strange looking. They were steered by the hind rolls that were like the modern front roll but these were mounted in a frame that could rotate 360 deg. It was said that these could turn in their own length. The first was delivered to Liverpool and weighed in at a huge 30 tons. Later the same year he built a roller that looks very like a modern machin with the small rolls at the front steering and the hind rolls like smooth traction engine wheels. These had coned rolls that were steered from the center. Wonderful maths involved to get the angle of the axle right to match the taper of the rolls and to get them to meet at the point of contact with the road. Fairly soon this was done away with and a frame was designed to hold the rolls along with the extended headstock. By the time the last steam roller was produced by Aveling and Barford it was believed that in the British and former British Empire 70% of all rollers were Aveling and Porter or Aveling and Barford. This alone is an amazing statistic until you realise that 95% were built at Rochester.

Now that fine heritage has been lost by the demolition of the Aveling and Porter factory in Rochester. This plate is all that is left to remember that a man who was not of Kent but made the County his home and who put Invicta in almost every Country of the World. Invicta being the rampant horse of Kent, or as by some 'the prancing Nag'.

Sorry that I don't have any pics, I am not that good with a camera and copyright prevents me from other sources. Please feel free to add to this as I know there are holes, in the dates especially. That is the reason for the plate being there and the significance is that without Aveling we would not have had road rollers that worked from 1865 right into the 1970's. I know of one company that still has an Aveling 10 tonner as a working vehicle on their books.

Thanks for reading this, Sentinel S4.
A day without learning something is a day lost and my brain is hungry. Feed me please.

 

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