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Author Topic: Structure on the Lines  (Read 28124 times)

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Offline smiffy

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2011, 17:15:10 »

I've been trying to find a view myself from the same sort of distance and angle that includes the memorial so that a direct comparison can be made. Unfortunately I haven't had any luck and there are now so many trees in the way that a modern view isn't of much help. I'm beginning to wonder if this is simply some kind of optical effect  - similar to the way the moon looks larger when near the horizon - and that in fact the structure is just the good old pavilion after all.

merc

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2011, 10:48:00 »
I was on the Lines yesterday and saw that the roof of the pavillion, where it's not obscured by trees, is pretty prominent in certain places.

Offline peterchall

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2011, 09:24:17 »
A white Transit sized van on the lines at 8:30 this morning. There was a couple of people walking round the area behind it, but I couldn't see what they were doing. It is still there as I post this, and it has been there before. I took the photo to give an idea of scale.

Comparing it to the size of the memorial, and visualising the mystery structure, could that be the Pavilion?
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Offline peterchall

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2011, 17:52:32 »
It seems that map fits the photo better. Still standing at the ĎIí of Fair Row, by the non-right angled building, the kerb further on the left fits the photo better. So the location of the camera seems definite.

But there are still some anomalies:
1.   Where my lines 2 and 3 intersect on the 1907 map, or in that area, there are no buildings, yet we have a photo of the pavilion from 1904. It isnít a case of the map not showing detail of government property, because all the paths across the Lines are shown.
2.   On the 1907 map there is a small square building, about the size of a single house, that can just be seen between lines 1 and 2 on my map, on which it is beside a footpath that hasnít copied. On Kynís map it is beside the bottom of the ĎVí formed by the fortifications, to the left of ĎMí of ĎMunlí, although on her map it looks round. None of those fortifications etc, are shown on the 1907 map!

So what can we make of that?

PS: My map is by Alan Godrey Maps, titled 'Chatham 1907', with "Surveyed in 1862-3. Revised in 1907" in the bottom margin, and "Edition of 1909" in large letters across the top. I always quote it as 1907.
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Offline smiffy

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2011, 15:21:45 »

The original map was from the 30's, here's a much earlier map of Fair Row - you can see how there have been some alterations over the years.


Offline peterchall

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #43 on: October 04, 2011, 11:16:26 »
Here's Smiffy's original photo and part of his map side by side:

Stand at the 'I' of Fair Row on the map - there is the building with the 'non-right angled' corner on your left, the junctions with George Street on the left and Solomons Terrace on the right can be seen, and the building at the end of the road on the right, with the poster, is the pub. I think the big array of posters is on the other side of the Brook. But I do agree that the gap in the buildings between the near ones on the right and the pub does not match the map, nor does the apparent bend in the path further down on the left.
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Offline kyn

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2011, 09:09:57 »
In Smiffys picture are we sure we are at the last section of road before The Brook, or could it be further back before the road bends.  It looks like the path curves to the right further along the road.  Although that would place the structure on Spur Battery and the land does not look quite right for that.  But Spur was used as a camp with some large tents....

Offline peterchall

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2011, 08:48:48 »
Here is the promised map (1909), with apologies for poor quality:

I thought at first that the line of sight passed along Nelson Road and the original photo in the thread was wrongly located (Line 1).

However, that didn't look right and then I realised that the line of sight passes over the corner of the church (Line 2) and intersects with the view down Fair Row (Line 3).

So Kyn's photo doesn't throw a new light on things after all - sorry about that - but confirms that the mystery building is the Pavilion, which is what Swiftone said right at the start :)

Yet it still looks bigger than it should, or is it me? Are there any photos similar to Kyn's but with the memorial in view, that would give a better idea of scale?
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Offline peterchall

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2011, 22:58:27 »
Kyn's 2nd pair of photos, with the bandstand, what was St Andrew's Church, and the mystery building in line puts a totally different light on things. A line of sight passing across bandstand and church follows the line of Nelson Road, parallel to Fair Row but nearer to the Town Hall; it can be seen on Kyn's and Smiffy's maps. I'll try to post a map on here tomorrow.

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merc

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2011, 20:57:43 »
I went in the pavillion years ago. I remember it had changing rooms in it, i can't remember if it had any other rooms in it or not. Behind it, built on, was a small toilet block accesable from the outside. The Nissen hut was used as a hall, with a small kitchen at one end, i think.

Offline peterchall

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2011, 20:31:25 »
It certainly looks like the same building in Kyn's Victoria Gardens photos - I presume we mean the one directly behind the dome of the bandstand in the 2nd ones, but comparing it to the few other buildings that can be identified, I'm sure it is bigger than any photos of the pavilion, old or new.  

The map is post April 1924, because the war memorial is there, and the bandstand was still there in 1949. The photos show the building between them to be based on a Nissen Hut - they were patented in 1916 but not produced in quantity until WW2 (OK, I didn't know that - I just looked it up :)), so does all that date the map?

But regardless of the date, lay a rule along Fair Row on Kyn's map and it doesn't quite take in the pavilion, and I believe that is also the case with some of the other 'maps'. Yet that structure is the right shape, but to me seems still too big.
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Offline kyn

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2011, 19:54:50 »
Again I don't have a date to hand but this plan shows some buildings up there...

Offline kyn

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2011, 19:36:01 »
1948...

Offline kyn

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2011, 19:20:35 »
I don't know what date this is but it shows some structures in the same area...




Just to confuse matters slightly further there was a guardhouse on the lines in the same sort of area, although this building seems too big.

Offline smiffy

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Re: Structure on the Lines
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2011, 18:33:56 »

I've been searching myself for another view of this area from the same time period. The only thing I've found so far is this 1905 picture of Victoria gardens, which is a fair bit higher up and obviously taken from a different angle.



I've enlarged and clarified the building on the horizon which seems to be in about the same position. Not sure if this helps or just muddies the water some more :)

 

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