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Offline davpott

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Re: Cantium???
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2014, 21:01:14 »


Interesting question.>>snip see full post below.......unsnip


"The conclusion seems inescapable that the people living in Caesar's Cantium were not known by a collective tribal name, but that there existed in the area several small groups of people, probably referred to simply as 'the people of Cingetorix', etc; hence, it would appear that Caesar had no option than to encompass them all together in his circumlocution.
For it seems both unnecessary and unthinkable, particularly in view of his direct involvement in the area and other specific references to British tribes by name, that Caesar should have known and not used the name for the people of his Cantium, if they had one at the time."*

*The Cantiaci. Alex Detsicas, 1983. pages 6-7.

Cantium seems to be what the Greeks/Romans called Kent rather than the inhabitants themselves.
The name Cantium, given by Pytheas of Massalia (c300bc) originally refered to either the north or south foreland rather than the 'land of the Cantii'.

I was just about to dig out my copy of Detsicas to find exactly the same tracts Herb Collector quoted in their comment on this topic three years ago when I thought I'd better check the thread before I wrote anything :)

Other than to add I did check a more recent publication to Detsicas' which while, still well respected, is now over 30 years old. It concurs with Detsicas that "Caesar names four kings who ruled in Kent during the first century BC but no tribe here. The documented regional tribal name the Cantiaci seems to be the product of later Roman administration post - AD43." (An Historical Atlas of Kent eds Lawson & Killingray 2004.p16).

Despite even in modern times the idea that Kent is derived from the name of the people living here before the Romans is being regurgitated regularly. It can't escape the fact that unfortunately it doesn't. There is no record of what they called themselves if indeed they ever saw reason to give themselves a name which in itself is unlikely. 

Much like the romantic idea that "Invictus" refers to us being unbeaten by the Norman invaders. Which clearly we weren't, in fact we were severely punished by their forces. They make nice stories but unfortunately are no more than stories.

Offline smiler

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Re: Cantium???
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2014, 14:21:04 »
In a book I have, it reads: "Kent takes its name from the ancient Britons who occupied the country before the arrival of the Romans. In their Celtic language the word `canto` meant edge (modern Welsh still has cant for border or rim) and so presumably they thought of what came to be Kent as the edge of the known world. Julius Caesar, writing in 51 BC, referred to the area as Cantium, the home of the Cantiaci people. The city of Canterbury takes its name from the same origin and the Coat of Arms for the Kent County Council refers to the county as Cantia".

Offline Sentinel S4

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Re: Cantium???
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2011, 20:25:15 »
I have done a little more of the memory probing and have realised the name I originally thought was wrongly spelled. There are two legit versions; one is Caantii and the second substitutes two 'u's for the 'a's. As the 'c' in Celt is a hard 'k' and the 'a' is the hard 'a' not 'ay' and the 'i' is a 'y' then we are getting some where. However if spelled with the 'u's then it becomes akin to the Welsh 'w' as in Cwm being Coom(b). That could be a reference to the rolling hills and valleys of the area. So with the 'u's it becomes Koontyy or with the 'a's Kaantyy. Not really that far of of Kent really....

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Offline HERB COLLECTOR

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Re: Cantium???
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2011, 17:23:20 »
The land of Kent has had many names over its long history from Kent,Cent,Cantia. Cantium was the name of Kent given by Julius Caesar but is their any reference of the name of Kent given by its local inhabitants before the Romans came ?
Interesting question.
It seems that the tribes inhabiting what was later to be called Kent were too disjointed to have a name for the entire area, hence Caesar's need to impose a name.
Caesar names 4 rulers within Kent, but does not give their tribal names, the absence of which suggests local groups of people of fairly minor importance.

"Unlike other Romano-British civitates, which retained under the Romans the tribal names by which they were already known before the invasion, the inhabitants of this canton appear to have belonged to rather small ethnic groupings of Belgic as well as non-Belgic origins, lacking a tribal identity.
These people were brought together by the Romans, no doubt for administrative convenience, to form a new civitas peregrina."*

"The conclusion seems inescapable that the people living in Caesar's Cantium were not known by a collective tribal name, but that there existed in the area several small groups of people, probably referred to simply as 'the people of Cingetorix', etc; hence, it would appear that Caesar had no option than to encompass them all together in his circumlocution.
For it seems both unnecessary and unthinkable, particularly in view of his direct involvement in the area and other specific references to British tribes by name, that Caesar should have known and not used the name for the people of his Cantium, if they had one at the time."*

*The Cantiaci. Alex Detsicas, 1983. pages 6-7.

Cantium seems to be what the Greeks/Romans called Kent rather than the inhabitants themselves.
The name Cantium, given by Pytheas of Massalia (c300bc) originally refered to either the north or south foreland rather than the 'land of the Cantii'.
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Offline peterchall

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Re: Cantium???
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2011, 11:55:08 »
I've always believed that the inhabitants in this neck-of-the-woods were called the Cantii long before the Romans came, hence Canterbury, Kent, etc.  
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VonCantia

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Cantium???
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 11:20:30 »
The land of Kent has had many names over its long history from Kent,Cent,Cantia. Cantium was the name of Kent given by Julius Caesar but is their any reference of the name of Kent given by its local inhabitants before the Romans came ?

 

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