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Author Topic: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951  (Read 70309 times)

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Offline mikeb

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #138 on: December 18, 2015, 10:15:43 »
These photos recently came my way. I have not seen mention of this event taking place before & thought it may be of interest. Does anyone know when this minutes silence may have been held? By looks of it, perhaps a Sunday?

interested

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #137 on: April 24, 2014, 20:09:29 »
I used to live about ten doors up from the parents of one of the kids who was killed. They were Mr and Mrs Batty and they lived on St Williams Way, they are both dead now, he died last about ten years ago.
Ian

Offline HERB COLLECTOR

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #136 on: April 23, 2014, 22:01:06 »
The Last Parade (1951)
The funerals take place of 20 of the 24 cadets killed by a bus whilst out on a night march.
British Pathe film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w0mw4GszeA

For the funerals of the three Catholic cadets see Chatham_girls Pathe post earlier in the topic, January 2010.
Don't Let the Devil Ride Chris and Abby

Terryb17

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #135 on: June 10, 2013, 15:08:33 »
First off I will introduce myself. I run the Saint Georges Centre (formerly the Saint Georges Church) at Chatham Maritime, just off Dock Road. We have a plaque on the west wall commemorating  the Dock Road disaster. It was donated by Lloyds of London who used to have offices in Dock Road (now Medway Council Offices) where the old Royal Marines Barracks used to be. I have had 2 people come in in the last couple of months who have told me that if it hadn't been for the fact that they were late and hadn't paid their subs (3d), they would both have been at the back of that group.

Offline Del

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #134 on: December 15, 2012, 16:24:14 »
Thank you, yes, it is a fair point although I would have thought that someone out there would have relateable memories that, as perhaps more distant family members/neighbours, they would share them without emotional involvement, certainly now.
Perhaps someone seeing this now might prompt a few replies.
Let us hope so.
Many thanks again.
 

Offline kyn

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #133 on: December 15, 2012, 14:39:31 »
Unfortunately we have only been able to find out the history of the accident and the following documents posted.  I had hoped some involved may join but I would assume they would not want to be reminded of it all again.

Offline Del

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #132 on: December 15, 2012, 13:36:59 »
As a new member of this Forum may I ask if we know how the young lads got on in later life, if any are still alive, what jobs they ended up with and do any of them still live locally?
Certainly whilst the thousands of pounds that were mentioned in solicitor and doctor letters, up to £8000 at one point it would appear, did the parents involved eventually get anything.
 

Offline bromptonboy

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #131 on: September 01, 2012, 12:20:30 »
The City Archives hold records from Gillingham Borough Council that include the following:

Gillingham Bus Disaster: Royal Marines Cadet Disaster 1951-1993. File Number 5878.

Mainly corresp files from 1950s concerning admin of the fund, funeral arrangements, letters of condolence, disbursements etc. Also folder of copy Chancery papers regarding final outcome of the fund (1993)

 * the fund was not the responsibility of GBC but the town clerk acting as secretary to the Trustees. The fund had initially been formed by the Mayors of Chatham, Rochester & Gillingham

The bit I have highlighted might assist you in discovering the final outcome of the fund controversy.

Offline kyn

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #130 on: September 01, 2012, 10:10:39 »
That was the last letter in the file apart from one saying the Attorney-General did not wish to appeal.  So we are still in the dark in regards to the money, but it does seem it was used for something.  Maybe a return trip to the National archives will uncover the end result?

Offline kyn

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #129 on: September 01, 2012, 10:07:03 »
11th August, 1958.

Dear Burke,

County – Kent
Place – Gillingham
The Gillingham Bus Disaster Fund

I see that there is to be an appeal to the House of Lords in connection with this fund, therefore although what I have to say may seem a bit premature, it might in the event become timely.

I have under consideration the need of a good deal of improvement of some almshouses at Walmer which were founded by Mr. Thompson a brewer of that place and christened the Harriet Cooke Almshouses.  The brewing interests by which they were maintained have now passed to Charrington & Co. who do not seem to be disposed and who are certainly under no obligation to continue the past benevolence of the family business connected with the Founder of the almshouses.  In the result the almshouses lacking endowment are going to be a bit of a problem if they are to be improved and have reasonable security for the future.  This position might be altered if the surplus of the Bus Disaster Fund were declared to be held for charitable uses and there were a reference back to the Court of the Charity Commissioners to make a scheme; I might then suggest to the Mayors that almshouses for widows of Marines were not too remote a cy-pres application.  Walmer is I understand a place with a great number of retired Marines and their widows and I am about to sound those managing the charitable funds connected with the Royal Marines to see whether they would take over the trusteeship of the almshouses and are in a position out of those charitable funds to make provision for widows of former Marines and if so whether they would like to take these almshouses under their wing, suitable nominees of the Corps being appointed trustees.

May I therefore ask that you might keep this in mind in case at any stage a suggestion of this nature might be receivable by the Court with the approval of the Mayors and afford perhaps a solution to the search for some cy-pres object of the Bus Disaster Fund.

Yours sincerely
Mr. Coombe

Offline kyn

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #128 on: August 29, 2012, 22:05:18 »
15th January, 1958

Dear Sirs,

Gillingham ‘Bus Disaster Fund

I have to inform you that I have now received instructions that H.M. Attorney-General is appealing against the decision of Mr. Justice Harmen in this case.  I am at once sending instructions to Counsel to settle the Notice of Appeal and I will arrange to serve you as soon as I can.

Yours faithfully,
G. B. Burke



31st January, 1958/

Dear Sirs,

Gillingham Bus Disaster Fund

I hereby give you notice that this Appeal was set down for hearing in the Chancery Division Final List today.

I enclose two copies of the Order of the 27th November 1957 together with my Debit Note therefor.

When you reply to my letter of the 29th January, I should be obliged if you would confirm that you are briefing Mr. J.V. Nesbitt to appear for the Plaintiffs on the hearing of the Appeal.

Yours Faithfully,
G.B. Burke

Offline kyn

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #127 on: July 25, 2012, 20:58:03 »
28th November, 1957

Dear Dudman,

Gillingham ‘Bus Disaster Fund

This summons has not been disposed of with the result that the Fund has been held to revert to donors.  The Judge delivered Judgement on the charity point on the 8th October and I enclose a transcript of that Judgement.  After the Judgement had been given I instructed Buciley to advise about an appeal by the Attorney-General and am also enclosing you his original opinion dated the 21st November.  I should now like to know please if the attorney-General does direct an appeal we can consider later if it is desirable to have someone to lead Buckley.

I am also enclosing Buckley’s Brief on the summons in case you want to refer to the papers accompanying it.

Yours sincerely,
G. B. Burke.

Offline Wardy

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #126 on: July 25, 2012, 06:03:01 »
Memorial in the St Georges Centre,Chatham Maritime
(Image removed from quote.)
Dave Charles was a great friend, R.I.P. Dave along with all our other mates. all dearly missed.

Wardy

Offline kyn

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #125 on: July 24, 2012, 19:19:57 »
31st October, 1956

Dear Sir,

re: Gillingham Cadet Disaster

As you know I was instructed by the Parents of the Cadets involved in this tragic accident, and I handled the Common Law claims arising therefrom.

At the same time I was consulted by the Parents generally in connection with the administration of the Appeal Fund which was launched immediately following the disaster.  From time to time innumerable meetings have taken place between the Town Clerk of Gillingham as the Secretary of the Fund and myself, and the Fund generally has been the subject of voluminous correspondence.

I am now informed that the matter is the subject of proceedings in the Chancery Division, and I understand that you are acting for the Defendants in those proceedings.

Not unnaturally the Parents feel that they, as the Parents, are entitled to express an opinion as to the final disposal of the monies in the Fund.

From time to time various suggestions have been made by me, on behalf of the Parents, to the Trustees in the hope that it would prove possible to resolve the whole problem on an amicable basis.  Unfortunately the proposals made did not commend themselves to the Trustees and all efforts to reach an amicable settlement having failed the Chancery Action was commenced.

When the Parents were informed of those Proceedings I was, in the first instance, instructed on their behalf to apply to the Court for leave to Intervene.  That proposal has been carefully considered by me, and I have also conferred with Counsel and it is now felt that such a step would not be a proper one.

I am now instructed by the Parents to communicate with you on the subject in the hope that their views can be conveyed through you to the Attorney General, one of the Defendants.  The Parents feel that it might well be that by adopting this line their suggestions might receive favourable consideration.

You will of course appreciate that I write in a semi-official capacity.  Entirely without prejudice to other issues which may arise in the Action, my own view is that the Parents, as Parents, have no official status.  It may well be that as members of the public they are concerned in the ultimate disposal of the Fund, but I cannot successfully contend that in Law they have any right to appear in the Proceedings.

The objects of this Fund will be well known to you.  I do not think it is necessary for me to comment on Object No.1. or Object No.2.  The provisions under Object No.1. do not arise, and the contingencies envisaged under Object No.2. have been covered in the settlement of the Common Law claims of the individual lads concerned.  This means that the only remaining matter for consideration is Object No.3.

Various suggestions have been put forward by the Parents under this heading and for various reasons the suggestions have been rejected.

In February of this year, however, I myself attended a meeting of all the Parents and as the result a Scheme was submitted by me to the Trustees.  It was proposed that form the balance of the monies standing to the credit of the Fund the sum of £2,000 should be set aside to create a new Fund to e used to relieve distress should, in the future, any Cadet develop any physical disability attributable to the injury or injuries sustained by him in the accident, such Fund to be kept in existence for 7 years, by which time all the Cadets concerned would have attained the age of 21.  The proposal was, of course, in accordance with the terms of Object No.2.  It was further proposed that the whole of the balance of the appeal monies should be used to create a memorial fund, such fund to be used for the benefit of spastic children.

This Scheme was put forwards after a very careful consideration and after lengthy Conference with Counsel.  It was felt that the cause of spastic children was a “worthy cause” and one within the meaning of the original Appeal and one in respect of which a “memorial” could well be created.

Although, as I say, this Scheme was rejected by the Trustees, the Parents still felt that their suggestions were proper one and ones which, if adopted, would resolve all the difficulties.

I fully appreciate the many problems which face you in this very involved matter, but I write as I do, in the hope that, when considering the matter generally, you will take into account the views and feelings of the Parents, although as I say, in Law, it may well be that the Parents have no standing whatsoever.  I cannot help feeling that morally, as the Parents, they are entitled to ask that their opinions should be considered.

The last Scheme submitted to the Trustees was one which received the unanimous support of all the Parents.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to consider the matter generally in the light of what I say, and thereafter perhaps you would let me have your views.

If I can assist in any way by furnishing further information to you I shall be happy so to do.

Yours faithfully,
W. H. Thomas

Offline kyn

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Re: Dock Road Accident 4th December 1951
« Reply #124 on: July 24, 2012, 16:15:38 »
26th July 1956.

The treasury Solicitor,
3 Birdcage Walk,
St. James’s Park,
London S.w.1.

Dear Sirs,

Gillingham Bus Disaster Fund.

We are the London Agents for Mr. Frank Hill of Gillingham who has been in communication with you concerning an application to the Court for directions as to the above Fund.

We enclose herewith a copy of the Originating Summons which we have to-day issued from which you will see that you have been made a Defendant in addition to Her Majesty’s Attorney General.  Counsel has advised that this is necessary as it is not known whether you will be contending that some part of this fund goes to the crown as bona vacantia.

On the 10th July we made application to the Charity Commission for the consent of the Charity Commissioners to the institution of these proceedings under Section 17 of the Charitable Trusts Act 1853.  In a letter dated the 23rd July the Secretary of the Charity Commission informs us that the Commissioners are prepared to make a Certificate under Section 17 and the draft Certificate is in the course of preparation.

The Official solicitor has consented to be added as a Defendant to represent the Donors.

We will let you have a copy of the evidence filed in support of the Originating Summons in due course and we will no doubt receive in the meantime the duplicate appearance for yourself and for Her Majesty’s Attorney General.

We enclose herewith two additional copies of the Originating Summons.

Yours faithfully,
W. Sharpe

 

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