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Author Topic: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?  (Read 12254 times)

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Offline peterchall

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2015, 18:13:36 »
That photo is also in a booklet titled Chatham and District Traction Company by the M&D and East Kent Bus Club and captioned “One of the Titans nears the end of its journey”. That confirms it is a C&D bus and not an M&D on Service 29, and dates it between 1935 and 1939 as per previous posts above.

However there is some more information. The text of the booklet states that the trams terminated at the ‘White Horse’ pub but the buses, because of the need to turn round, continued to Silver Hill, into which they reversed to turn – the bus is just starting on that leg of its journey. I used C&D Service 5 quite often when going to/from Safety Bay, at the bottom of Manor Lane, and I’m sure the buses still spent their layover time at the ‘White Horse’, which meant they went down to Silver Hill to turn and came back up to the pub.

My question is – did they run empty between the ‘White Horse’ and Silver Hill, or did they drop off/pick up passengers at the latter? Or am I wrong about them spending their layover at the pub?

The timetables simply say ‘Borstal’ so they are no help. But the arrangement would have continued after C&D was absorbed by M&D and the service became M&D 145, and probably thereafter until Borstal ceased to be a terminus when Arriva took over.

Does anyone remember?
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Offline 80sChild

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2015, 21:30:02 »
By the looks of it at first I assumed that shop on the left is now a Co-op, because it's on the corner and there is a road that runs downhill beside it.
Also, further up there is a row of terrace houses and a large space in-between them, which is now the site of a church, and up where that bus is I think might be pub (which we can't see because the bus is blocking the view).

HOWEVER, having looked at it again some details (like the plaque on the wall) I didn't pick up the first time (and re-read the posts) I think that is a Take-away now.

Great pic, by the way! I've never actually seen that one before.  :)

Offline grandarog

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2014, 13:51:09 »
There we go then pinned it down to between 1935 & 1939. :)

Offline peterchall

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2014, 11:18:32 »
I’ve copied and enlarged the bus and, while too blurred to read the actual number, I’m sure it has a word above and below it, in accord with C&D service number showing as “Town – 5 – Service” on successive lines.

C&D’s Titans were replaced by Bristol K5G’s during June, July and August 1939.

See: http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=5113.msg41394#msg41394
Especially the 4th photo.
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Offline grandarog

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2014, 07:21:57 »
The van appears to be a Morris series 2 which were made between 1935 and 1938. That dates the picture post 1935 at the earliest . Looking at the hump roof on the Titan bus it could be any of the T models up to 4 or 5. Judging by the dresses and the chewing gum machine I would say date post war between 1945  to Coronation time or later,when people had a bit more money and started to replace their prewar vehicles.

Offline peterchall

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2014, 19:48:57 »
The bus looks like one of the Leyland TD1's bought by Chatham & District to replace the trams. If so it is on service 5, Strand - Borstal. M&D had some similar vehicles, if so it is on service 29 Chatham - Maidstone. However they were all withdrawn well before 1958 (who knows the precise date?) so it has to be I think pre-war. No sign of war time head lights or white edges to the mud-guards.
Chatham and Districts TD1's were withdrawn or passed to M&D during 1939. The last M&D TD's were withdrawn in 1949, but I don’t think it’s one of those because I often travelled between Rochester and Eccles before, during and just after the war and Service 29 was always operated by single-deckers, usually Tilling-Stevens.

So I reckon it was no later than early 1939.
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Offline borstalboy

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2014, 17:40:38 »
The row of buildings on the right is Cobden Place, now demolished. The building second from the right, with the fancy rendering on it, used to be the Good Intent pub. You can see the trap-door to its cellar in the pavement. This is one of a series of postcards, another of which features the same girl, and shows Borstal Village Hall. I've been told they date to 1932, but suspect a later date, as the second photo shows houses that weren't built till 1938. So I'd say that it's just before WW2. Did girls wear dresses like that then?

sandynan46

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 23:53:25 »
I so love this pic!  The shop 'Carringtons' still exists but is now a chinese takeaway and chippie.  I remember as a child going to Carringtons for mums shopping and putting it 'in the book' which got paid each week.  20 Gold Flake cigarettes were happily handed over to this child without a thought.  Where the bus is, well, just behind it , is where the White Horse pub stands, on the left as you look at this picture, and Nashenden Lane would have been off to the right.  We used to go to school up the alley opposite the pub, St Matthews C of E Primary. 
Those old cottages were originally for the cement workers down towards the river, the ruins are still visible.  These cottages were demolished and the road widened and Sheriden Court was built there for the Elderly.
I dont know how to date this really, as said previously, judging by the girl, about the 40's, (I might have known her) I was born in 1946 and lived in Borstal until I married in 1967.
The Queen Mother Court, by the way, is quite a long way out of the village, nearer to Fort Clarence.  Seaford Pete, I also remember the Beechnut chewing gum machine, haha.  Do it right and you got the free pkt with one flick !!  AH, memories :)

seafordpete

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2012, 14:06:08 »
I'm going for 1948-54. I see the Beechnut chewing gum machine is on the wall by the guy with the handcart. We used to spend hours lurking around it waiting for the arrow on the handle to get to "one free every fourth turn".

Offline mikeb

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2012, 13:58:14 »
The bus looks like one of the Leyland TD1's bought by Chatham & District to replace the trams. If so it is on service 5, Strand - Borstal. M&D had some similar vehicles, if so it is on service 29 Chatham - Maidstone. However they were all withdrawn well before 1958 (who knows the precise date?) so it has to be I think pre-war. No sign of war time head lights or white edges to the mud-guards.

Offline Lyn L

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2012, 12:55:12 »
I would have thought it was the 40s judging by what the girl has on,  but am not sure. I can't remember what was there after those houses were demolished and before the 'Courts' were built either, just that the road was wider. Perhaps it was just an empty green space? Walked up to the school everyday with my young son but that 'image ' has gone from my brain. He started at St. Matthews in 1969.
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Offline davidt

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 12:36:52 »
The card hasn't been posted - which is a shame as I always like the 'used' ones best because the postmark can often give you a clue to the date of the picture.

I've done some digging about the van registration and it was either registered between March 1936 and January 1937 or between May and September 1958. As the second date is too late, based on what Seafordpete has said about the houses, I would suggest it gives us a twenty year window of 1936-56. Anyone able to pinpoint it any more?

Offline Sentinel S4

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2012, 12:05:21 »
Any one fancy trying to date the postcard? 50's or 60's? Anyone identify the young lady in the pic? Damned if I would want to be driving that bus as it looks a bit narrow...... I love these old pics, so much has changed in so short a time. S4.
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Offline davidt

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2012, 12:03:04 »
Thanks Seafordpete and LynL. I knew someone out there would know!

I had a look myself on Streetview and I thought this was where it was, but I wasn't certain. Nice to have the then and now pictures for a comparison.

Offline Lyn L

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Re: Postcard of Borstal, but where exactly?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2012, 11:47:13 »
Well, I seem to think that the shop (Carrington and Sons ) is still there and was/is a Chinese takeaway with Borstal Fish Bar next door. Where the houses were is now Queen Mother Court. We lived in Cordelia Crescent, which backs on to Borstal Street, for about 10 years, moved further into Rochester, but often drive through Borstal  Changed a bit since this great old pic  :) I used to work in the shop on the extreme L of the the recent pic, when it was Jordans. They let me loose with the Bacon slicing machine  :) and cutting and wrapping all different cheeses, loved it and only sliced myself once.

I see SP has added a 'now' pic, and it's Sheridan Court opposite, not Queen Mother Court which is a bit further up near the old school.
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