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Author Topic: Martin Mill Military Railway  (Read 45480 times)

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Offline cliveh

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2011, 15:25:17 »
I was lucky enough to go on an excellent National Trust guided walk of this and Pearson's other railways along the White Cliffs this last Saturday. It was led by a very knowledgeable lady who knew the history & sites of the various lines as well as the various gun batteries along the route. We were out almost 5 hours and it included a visit to and quick tour of the South Foreland Lighthouse. Best of all it was free!!  :) They will be repeating it a some stage so check in with the White Cliffs Visitor's Centre for the next one!

cliveh

wam19

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #46 on: November 17, 2010, 10:19:11 »








Hope these show it ok, its hard with mobile phone cam.

You can clearly see the grass area at the very top, but thats all thats left due to cliff being cut away over time.

philspain

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2010, 21:41:00 »
The link below should open the above diagrams in Google Earth as image overlays. By using the transparency slider under the Places window you can compare the charts with current imagery ...

http://ramsgatehistory.com/gemaps/Martin_Mill_Military_Railway.kmz

Offline Paul

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wam19

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #43 on: November 15, 2010, 02:32:22 »
I work as Security in the docks. You can still see the cut out in the chalk where the Funicular railway was. Thanks to this thread i now no what the cut out in the chalk is. When i get a chance il post a picture for you....

Guest

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2010, 13:52:30 »






Have now found and read John's piece on uploading photos, and hopefully the OP and maps will now appear! Someone mentioned the winding gear: I've arrowed the winding station in red on the 1" map - its remains are still there.
As regards the Dover end of the original industrial railway, my understanding is that when the harbour was to be built the cliff above what is now the Eastern Dock was artificially scarped (a) to make it safer (the eastern blockyard where concrete blocks were formed would have been below it) and (b) to re-claim land for the blockyard. The railway, which brought shingle from just north of Sandwich - what is now Stonar Lake - stopped at the clifftop and shingle was just pitched down the cliff. Later a funicular was built, and brought trucks down the cliff (there's a photograph of this in the Dover Museum photographs database).
Later, when Pearson got the contract to widen the Admiralty Pier for the construction of the Marine Station, he got the chalk necessary for the infill by cutting the broad track that runs up the cliff. Craftily, he also thus constructed the 'new road' needed by the Dover, St Margarets and Martin Mill Light Railway Co (of which he was one third) to extend the existing Dover Corporation Tramways system to St Margarets and on to Martin Mill. The 'new road' cut through the funicular, and another sloping track was construted from the cliff top down to the 'new road' and now complete trains could brought from the top of the cliff down to (almost) sea level. There's a photograph of a train doing just this in Bob Hollingsbee's "Dover in old picture postcards" (pic 33).

davidb

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2010, 15:04:19 »
Hi!
Re the unidentified something in the Google Earth photo, yes I'm pretty sure it was where the aerial ropeway turned quite sharply to the right towards Dover Harbour. It shows quite clearly on the 1946 aerial photo and the current 1:25000 map and old 1" map (which shows the aerial ropeway) appear to back this up. And if someone will tell me how (old dog/new tricks I'm afraid!) I'll supply scanned copies from photograph and maps.

Offline TowerWill

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2010, 18:06:26 »
Thanks LenP that's the site OK.There's a series of dry valleys in that area so i wasn't sure that was the site.I suppose the line at (1) ended in the next valley( where Pooh was)?

LenP

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2010, 13:25:42 »
That's the area where there are remains of the 'Bruce' site.

http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=5903.0

Offline TowerWill

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2010, 12:34:33 »

From Google Earth showing what might be left at the end of line(2).It looks like it's been cleared but is too rough to farm.If it's the place i was shown there would have been concrete structures on both sides of the rough track with a narrow gauge line crossing the track.The rough track leads off The Droveway.The Droveway becomes the lane to Bockhill Farm.I think there are underground bunkers on the other side of The Droveway which may have been to do with a radar establishment.

Offline TowerWill

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2010, 16:33:53 »
The tunnels i refer to( reply 19 )may be the St.Margarets Underground Hospital Entrances.This is to be found in "Barracks ..." on KHF.

Offline TowerWill

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2010, 22:35:56 »
I've walked along quite a bit of the track in the 1960's.The section from the cliffs to Martin Mill Station was most interesting in the vicinity of the Deal/Dover road.The cutting wasn't infilled in those days and one could walk right under the road.The ammo stores could be looked at from the trackbed and the junction (to 3 & 4) was quite clear to see.The position of sleepers was easy to see in places.Some of the route (3 & 4)was a pleasant walk on a nice day.A footpath leaves the B road to Dover just past where it leaves St.Margarets and follows the route of the line for a while.Somewhere along here is the platelayers hut.If i remember correctly, near to the B road and walking towards Dover there were a series of tunnel entrances on the left.I didn't like the look of these and didn't have a torch anyway so they never got explored.They may be on KHF.
Another memory possibly connected with (2) is when i worked at a local farm and another farm hand showed me a track where there were some concrete bunkers and some railway tracks set into a concrete bed.These might have been a little narrow gauge system.This area would have been in the valley close to the Droveway and was probably at the end of (2).This was all 45/50 years ago so some sites may have been cleared since then.  

Offline Alastair

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2010, 15:05:33 »
Thanks Unfairytale, that's a great help. The sidings I'm on about are not the firing spurs, about which I already know, they are three much smaller sidings off the southern extension right beside South Foreland Battery, or at least they look like it on the 1947 view.
Many thanks,
Alastair

Offline unfairytale

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2010, 21:25:15 »
The spur you mention heading off in the direction of The Duke Of York's is infact an old road called Featherbed Lane.

The part of Pearson's track which heads past the 'hairpin' was laid ten years before the zig-zag/Hairpin  and was where the track originally terminated.

I guess the  sidings you refer to are the raiway gun firing spur and the ammo tracks for Wanstone Battery. Bigherb mentions this in the first post.
When you've got your back to wall, there's only one thing to do and that's to turn around and fight. (John Major)
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Offline Alastair

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Re: Martin Mill Military Railway
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2010, 14:21:09 »
Interesting stuff about the Martin Mill Railway. I've been studying it for a while and hope that some of you clever people out there can throw some light on one or two questions.

On all maps Pearson's railway follows the main line then turns south towards Dover. On some maps there is a spur going straight on towards the Duke of York's. On a 1947 aerial photo the line is shown as going part of the way there, or it could be a hedge. Does anyone know if the line went to the Duke of York's and if so, why?

On Unfairytale's excellent 1941 map the original Pearson Railway is shown as passing in front of the Prison, way past the hairpin and with a siding off it. I have never seen this layout before. Can anyone comment?

Again on the 1947 aerial view, there are what appear to be sidings, one facing east and two facing west by South Foreland Battery, one or both of them seeming to meet up with the roads, which would make sense. Would be grateful for any opinions.

 

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