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Author Topic: Local accents - do they still exist?  (Read 37946 times)

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weedon

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #86 on: November 15, 2013, 15:15:25 »
It is a pathway between two buildings. Twitten may well be a Sussex word, as I lived in East Sussex for a long time, which is also where I watched stoolball for the first time.

Offline peterchall

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #85 on: November 15, 2013, 15:07:54 »
What is a twitten/ginnel?
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weedon

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #84 on: November 15, 2013, 14:36:59 »
I have a friend from Lancashire who was told by friends that when she moved South nobody would talk to her because we are all stuck up. Blooming chippy Northerners :-)

I call it a twitten she calls it a ginnel (sp)

She says I pronounce milk as miwk, the hall as haw and when I fill holes in the hall wall I fill the waws in the haw.

Cheeky madam, if she keeps on I will stop speaking to her.

John38

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #83 on: November 15, 2013, 11:07:23 »
Yes it applies to But  :) We shouldn't begin a sentence with a conjunction!

We have been the only Southern accents in a South Yorkshire mining village for the last 25 years. They think: all Southerners are rich, posh or East Enders, hate Northerners and speak a foreign language.

It's all in the vowels - whilst we tend to pronounce them a bit nasally they pronounce them gutturally.

They call bread rolls, 'bread cakes' and never say 'until' but use 'while:' as in the shop is open 'while' 5pm  ....and that is only the tip!

And they have the same discussions as we are having here about accent differences between towns

Offline peterchall

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #82 on: November 15, 2013, 10:37:19 »
So was 'But' to start a sentence taboo as well?

Back to my grand-daughter's accent - she comes from 'Sowthburrow', not her granddad's 'Sarthbrer'.

Which reminds me of staying in a hotel on holiday a few years ago when a Yorkshireman told of his visit to Tunbridge Wells. "You'd have thought you were on the set of 'East Enders'" he said. To which I could only say "You weren't at Tunbridge wells then!".
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John38

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #81 on: November 15, 2013, 10:24:03 »
And But!
 
But who's counting  :)

Offline peterchall

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #80 on: November 15, 2013, 08:33:13 »
There is a distinguishable difference between East Kent and North Kent accents. My maternal grandparents came from Canterbury and they never lost their accents, which was different to my mother's and my North Kent one.

My youngest daughter, born in Chatham, was considered by the locals to have a 'gore blimey' accent when she went to work in Tunbridge Wells. And there is no doubt where my grand-daughter (her daughter) was raised - Southborough, not Chatham. I've heard it said, but can't  confirm, that there's a difference between Tunbridge Wells and Tonbridge.

But when it comes to Medway, Gravesend, Sittingbourne, Sheppey, I can't tell the difference.

And, on a different theme, I was always taught not to begin a sentence with 'And', but that now seems to be acceptable and I have done it twice in this post without it 'spoiling' what I've written (I hope :))
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Offline Bilgerat

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #79 on: November 14, 2013, 22:28:47 »
Nicely put, Sylvaticus. Tony Blair was another exponent of 'Estuary'.

Isn't Blair a Scot by birth?

Seriously though, back in the Spring, I was doing some work at Lydden and speaking to the farmer whose land we were working on, there was definitely an accent. The same accent my grandmother had - she originally came from Coldred.
"I did not say that the French will not come, I said they will not come by sea" - Lord St Vincent

John38

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #78 on: November 14, 2013, 22:14:17 »
So true AFS.

It is also amusing how most parts of the nation's working population hate 'Posh' English because  of its use in defining 'class'. The amusing thing is that Posh English or Received Pronunciation (RP) is not an English dialect but an accent that has its routes in the East Midlands dialect that moved south during the  Great Vowel Swing (C14 & C15).

In 1995 the then Minister for Education described Estuary English as being, "slovenly, mumbling, bastardized cockney"  (Piercy, 2012)

Offline afsrochester

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #77 on: November 14, 2013, 20:01:55 »
"Estuary English" - wide and comes from a mudded mouth, whom one of the early exponents was said to be Johnathan Ross, according to the BBC's Have I got news for you.

I've lived and worked in the Medway Towns all my life and can honestly say that I could never tell the difference in local accents.

As for politicians "adopting" accents, they will do anything to win votes! :) :) :)

Offline peterchall

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #76 on: November 14, 2013, 19:37:11 »
It's strange how little things annoy us. I almost scream when newsreaders, weather forecasters, etc say "Hello, good evening".
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Offline Sentinel S4

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #75 on: November 14, 2013, 19:29:53 »
Locally, in Canterbury at least Sky was often changed to Skoy, my two lads still say it that way times. Another thing locally is to refer to the City as Cannerbree. In Aylesham the footpaths are still galled Jittys, in the City they are Alleys or Lanes. There are still local differences to be found. However one phrase that I first encountered in Aylesham was the God awful Hiya. used as a greeting. I despised it 30 years ago and now that it seems to nation wide I am almost at screaming point as everyone these day seems to have forgotten how to say Hello......

S4.
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John38

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2013, 13:01:23 »
Nicely put, Sylvaticus. Tony Blair was another exponent of 'Estuary'.

The famous Milton Keynes research is often sited, insofar as a New Town in the Midlands was expected to speak with a Midlands accent, but, in the event, ended up speaking  'Estuary'. The import of the London overflow with it's 'Cor Blimey' accent was seen as 'trendy' by the locals and it became the norm.

Offline Sylvaticus

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2013, 12:15:04 »
... "Don't say ain it's ain't!" ...

My guess is that the boy hadn't dropped the final t (making ain' rhyme with pain). Instead, I'd expect he'd ended ain't with a glottal stop, i.e. closing the vocal chords at the bottom of the throat. That's been the usual way throughout Southern England beyond living memory. So the father was most likely warning him against glottal stops. But a lovely story, since it involved ain't as well, picking on one taboo, and letting the other go.

Peterchall reminded us a few days ago of the difference between dialect (grammar, vocabulary etc) and accent (pronunciation).  Now's a good moment for another important distinction, between prescription and description. These are two different approaches for how you work with grammar. The prescriptive approach proclaims that there's only one correct grammar for a language, anything else is bad and incorrect. The descriptive approach emphasizes the differences, recording and comparing regional and social variation. During the 20th c. the focus gradually shifted towards description.

Attitudes to usage can change quickly over a mere generation or so. Ain't was still acceptable in the 19th c., but has since become taboo. If you're still a habitual ain't user, and get invited to an annual dinner by a host who's an ain't detester, it would be wise not to say ain't when you propose a toast, especially if your job depends on it. Grammar or etiquette?

The current Prime Minister seems to be doing his best to sound like an Eastender. Listen carefully when he's on the telly, he might just restore ain't for us, and lift that taboo.

weedon

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Re: Local accents - do they still exist?
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2013, 10:49:57 »
True story this, I promise.

Back when I was a lad living in Hythe, I was on the top deck of the 103 bus from Folkestone to Hythe with my dad. The bus was the type that had the gangway along one side with the bench seats all the way over to the other side instead of the aisle in the middle.

Sitting behind my dad and I was a family from Hythe we knew a little. During their conversation the father said to the boy "Don't say ain it's ain't!"

Now we were not posh and we ain't never been but we did think it was amusing.

 

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