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Author Topic: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester  (Read 24016 times)

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Offline peterchall

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2013, 22:17:16 »
If it's not being morbid, I'd like to know if my memory of the family tragedy is correct.
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Offline Lyn L

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2013, 21:52:55 »
You will have to wait a bit longer  :) I tried the number I had and it wasn't the right one, back to the drawing board. Can get it tomorrow, her parents are neighbours of mine .
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Offline peterchall

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2013, 21:22:02 »
Thanks to Scoop, Redge and Numanfan it’s clearer. :)

Starting from the far end and working back towards Star Hill, we have:
•   25 = Brewery Arms with just one number. Silly of me to assume that because it had 3 doors it had 3 numbers.
•   23 = Miss Milford (1955); Miss Moore (1974)
•   21 =Now derelict single storey. Part of Doctor’s in 1974
•   19 = Doctor’s in 1955 and 1974
•   17 = Darker bricked house. Cyril Brigden (1974)

That makes the 3 lighter bricked houses Nos 11, 13, and 15, as stated by Scoop. Being of the same appearance it is more likely that was the location of Ware’s shop than my earlier assumption that it consisted of 2 light bricked and 1 dark bricked house - I wasn’t happy with that.

Then the bakers at No 9 in 1955 and 1974 accords with Signal99’s memory of it being next to Ware’s.

Then the Nos 1 to 7 records in 1955 and 1974 all fit. I had assumed 2 houses in the white topped part because of 2 doors, but can see that it could be 3 flats – in fact, in Reply#9 I referred to them as ‘houses/flats’

Does that all make sense?

Looking forward to LynL's update.
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Offline numanfan

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2013, 19:56:29 »
Kelly's of 1955 shows many of the shops that have been mentioned, including the bakers at No.9.

   
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Offline Lyn L

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2013, 19:28:21 »
Thanks redge, solved my 'brain' mystery for me, Dr Sidney Gee. The surname came to me shortly after I posted .
And I'd forgotten the hairdressers there at no7. I even used to have mine done there! Although it was under a different name when I used it. Got to make that phone call now though. :)
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Offline redge

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2013, 19:19:22 »
Kelly's 1974,  Victoria Street, Rochester.
# 1, Associated Newspapers, Distribution Centre, Victoria Hall.
# 3, Instant Service.
# 5, Clarance Laundry.  # 5, Whitlock (flat)
# 7, Ann Graham, Ladies Hairdressers. # 7. G Brooks (flat)
# 9, S. Cox, Baker.  # 9, Mrs Franks (flat)
#11/15, Wares, Drapers. #15, Mrs M Percy (flat)
#17, Cyril Brigden.
#19/21. Victoria St Clinic, #19, Sydney Gee (flat)
                                    #19, Hilda Elman (flat)
#23, Mrs Moore.
#25, Brewery Arms, Public House.
 
redge

Offline Lyn L

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2013, 19:06:32 »
Going by the numbers from 19 onwards. That building seems to have been a Doctors house/surgery for an awful long time. I've completely forgotten the name of the Dr that was there ( it's on the tip of my tongue but won't appear !) He was well known and I'm sure someone knows who it was, he seemed to have a lot of the building but I wouldn't know what numbers they were, as I never visited the man.  The building was empty for a long time before being refurbished just a few years back.

Shall be ringing my friend this evening for a little bit more info ' on the last years of Wares.
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Offline scoop

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2013, 18:19:44 »
"2 houses with white upper storeys = Nos 5 & 7"  - I think this is/was 3 buildings Nos. 5, 7 & 9.  Each having 2 windows on the upper floor.

"3 houses with ‘lightish', brickwork = Nos 9, 11, 13" - Are 11, 13, 15 if you zoom in on GSV.



Offline peterchall

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2013, 17:45:46 »
Thanks Signals99 and Scoop.

Going along Victoria Street from Star Hill, using Google SV, we have on the left:
‘Instant Service’, the domestic appliance shop = No 3.
2 houses with white upper storeys = Nos 5 & 7
3 houses with ‘lightish', brickwork = Nos 9, 11, 13
1 house with darker brickwork = No 15
A large double fronted house = No 17
Another single fronted house = No 19
The offices of ‘Nomen’, a consultancy firm, with 3 doors = Nos 21, 23, 25.

No 3 is definite according to the shop’s website, ‘Nomen’ is in the phone book as 25 Victoria Street, and its premises were once the ‘Brewery Arms’ pub, also listed as No 25 in ‘Dead Pubs’ website. So the end numbers are unaltered and I assume the intervening numbers are also unaltered.

So one the one hand we have Signals99’s memory of a cake shop at No 3, next door to Ware’s, and LynL’s and my wife’s memory of Ware’s at that end of the street.

On the other hand there is my (outnumbered) memory of Ware’s being about halfway along the street, supported by Scoop’s Kelly’s Directory.

So please, all Kelly’s owners, or anyone else’s memory  - HELP! :)
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Offline scoop

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2013, 17:08:41 »
No luck on who was there immediately before Wares.  Going back to 1911 Census, the odds were all private houses except No. 25 The Brewery Arms.

Kellys Victoria Street - Rochester
1918
2 - Wren William Charles, Confectioner
8- Mangon Annie (Mrs.), Dress Maker
18 - Hopper Hy., Antique Furniture Dealer & 121 High St.
20 - Moss Percy S. City Arms PH
25 - Reaks William John, Brewery Arms PH

Rochester & Chatham Joint Hospital for Infectious Diseases (St. William's) medical officer C. J. Mangon, 8 Victoria St
Rochester Conservative & Liberal Unionist Association - Registration Office

1922
2 - Ducker & Rowthorn, Upholsterers
6 - Shrobsole Ellen Margt. (Mrs.), Shopkeeper
15 - Ware Robert, Draper
18 - Egan Richard John, Fish Dealer
19 - Jeferiss Frederick Burroughs M.R.C.S Eng., L.R.C.P Lond., F.R.C.S Edin., Physician & Surgeon
20 - Moss Percy S., City Arms PH
25 - Reaks William John, Brewery Arms PH

Rochester & Chatham Joint Hospital for Infectious Diseases (St. William's) medical officer C. J. Mangon, 8 Victoria St
Rochester Conservative & Liberal Unionist Association - Registration Office

1930
2 & 6 - Shrobsole Ellen Margt. (Mrs.), Confectioner
8 - Mangon Charles John, Accountant, Estate & insurance agent, & clerk to Rochester & Chatham joint hospital board
9 - Briggs Ernest Jn., Confectioner
11, 13 & 15 - Ware Rt. Draper
12 - Romney A. & N., Watch Makers
18 - Egan Rd. Jn., Fish Dealer
18 - Johnson Ada Emily (Mrs.), Midwife
19 - Thomas Jn. Oscar M.C., M.D.Lond., M.R.C.S.Eng, M.R.C.P.Lond, Physician & Surgeon
20 - Jones Hy. City Arms PH
23 - Katcher Joseph, Tailor
25 - Reaks Wm. Jn., Brewery Arms PH

Gibb Alfd. Ernest, Carpenter & Joiner Victoria St. & 62 Cecil Rd
Crossland Chas. A. Registrar of Births Deaths & Marriages for Strood Sub-district, Victoria St
Style & Winch Ltd, Brewers; Stores, Acorn Wharf & Wine & spirit Mers. Victoria St


Offline Signals99

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2013, 12:59:36 »
Peterchall,
The cake shop was the shop now occupied by the Instant Service store, the door was on the left up three steps. I think it was called Bucket's. I do know for certain the cakes/bread came from a bakery in St Margarets Street, next to a school.



Offline peterchall

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2013, 11:06:23 »
Great find, Scoop :)
If LynL is correct and Ware’s finally closed in the 1980’s, the firm existed for about 60 years. Do the pre-1922 Kelley’s show who occupied No 15 before Ware’s did?

Presumably Ware’s took over Nos 11 and 13 in 1939 and converted the whole lot into one shop with one door, numbered 11, 13 and 15 to avoid re-numbering – unless there was a ‘private’ door at one end or the other of the premises.

Which raises a point about location:

The domestic appliance shop is No 3, so presumably No 1 was in the space to its left. If so, there would have been Nos 5, 7 and 9 between it and Ware’s, probably in the space now occupied by the premises each side of the archway, with the white upper floor. That would have put Ware’s where the houses with lower roofs than those beyond are - just by the back of the white van -  approximately opposite The Terrace, which is where I thought it was.

Do any editions of Kelley’s show the occupants of 5, 7 and 9 at any time?

Signals99, you mention a cake shop next to Ware’s; can you remember if it was to the right or left?
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Offline Signals99

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2013, 05:46:28 »
Scoop, thank you for the verification of Robert Ware's name. Sometimes, reading other people's blogs dredges up long forgotten memories, childhood recollections of mum dragging me into Wares shop (it was so boring to me).
Still, the cake shop next door was a compensation, the lady who served had to come up a flight of stairs to the shop, she got really upset if you only wanted one thing. What I wouldn't give for one of those meringues now. :)

Offline scoop

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2013, 22:13:03 »
Robert Ware, Draper is in Kellys 1922 through 1938 at 15 Victoria Street then later 11, 13, 15 Victoria Street. Can't see an entry in earlier Kellys.

Offline peterchall

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Re: Haberdashers Victoria Street, Rochester
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2013, 20:26:23 »
PC, your wife is right  :)
And she doesn’t even come from Rochester – oh the shame of it :)

Apart from being born in Rochester, I lived there from 1936-1938 and 1940-1952, and Ware’s was there during the later period if not the earlier one. So I wonder just how far back it went as a family business, and if anyone owned it previously.

My wife doesn’t remember the accident to the daughter that I mentioned earlier, so I think it must have been before we met in 1946, because I remember it as a big local story. She fell into a bath of scalding water on the morning of what would have been her wedding day - but, of course, memories are fallible. I’m sure it’s the origin of my practice of always putting the cold water in first when running a bath
It's no use getting old if you don't get artful

 

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