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Author Topic: 1805 Crew ?  (Read 2864 times)

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Offline Bilgerat

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2017, 20:59:55 »
As I've mentioned in essays about other ships, a ship in the Ordinary was manned by a skeleton crew. A Second Rate ship of the line like HMS Temeraire would have had the following men aboard during her time in the Ordinary:
Boatswain plus two servants
Gunner plus two servants
Carpenter plus two servants
Cook plus one servant
The ship was also assigned a Purser, but he didn't have to live aboard, he was allowed to live ashore, within a reasonable distance from the Dockyard, ready to be called upon if necessary. If he chose to live ashore (and they usually did), any servants he did have had to be paid from his own pocket. If the Purser did decide to live aboard, he would also have been entitled to two servants.
In addition to these senior Warrant Officers, a 98 gun Second Rate ship of the line like HMS Temeraire would have had a crew of 32 men, all rated at Able Seaman.

The senior Warrant Officers in a ship in the Ordinary reported to the Master Attendant of that particular Division of the Ordinary, who in turn was another senior Warrant Officer. Master Attendants were chosen from those at the top (in order of seniority) of the list of Sailing Masters.

Further to my previous posts in this thread, I forgot to mention that when men were paid monthly, they were paid by the lunar month, not the calendar month.
"I did not say that the French will not come, I said they will not come by sea" - Lord St Vincent

Offline Piglet 88

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2017, 19:16:56 »
The boys on HMS Temeraire in 1805 are divided into 3 lists, Volunteers of the 1st Class, Boys of the 2nd Class and Boys of the 3rd Class. There are also several boys in the Marines list. During December 1805 and January 1806 most of the crew are sent to many different ships, including the Anson, Audacious, Canada, Namur, Inconstant and Repulse. Not all the boys are sent to these ship, but remain with the Temeraire when she is 'Ordinary' at Portsmouth. They then appear on the list as Servants. On the January list there are only 10 on the muster list, which included Boatswain, Gunner, Carpenter, Purser and Cook.
Ages on the list may not be very accurate, -  Volunteers of the 1st Class,  No. 9 ,  Francis Harris,  born Chatham,  Plymouth volunteer,   age - 13
Francis Harris was actually 8 at the Battle of Trafalgar, on board with his Father, Francis Harris - Gunner

Offline conan

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2016, 00:11:11 »
This has turned into a fascinating thread,thank you Bilgerat for sharing your  encyclopaedic knowledge on the subject.

There's a bit more more about early income tax here

http://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/private-lives/taxation/overview/incometax/
To remain ignorant of what happened before you were born is to remain a child......Cicero

Offline Bilgerat

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2016, 17:53:11 »
At the age of 15, presumably with a couple of years sea service behind him, your subject would be paid as a Boy, 2nd Class, at 12s.4d per month.

With two or more years of sea service, your subject would have been promoted automatically to Able Seaman on attaining his 19th birthday and would have received a pay rise to 1.13s.6d per month.

In addition to this would be prize money. The crew of a ship received 2/8 of the value of any ships they captured, shared out between them. I don't know what the precise share of it would be for a Boy 2nd Class.

All the accumulated wages would have been paid in one lump sum on being paid off. Prize money was dealt with by agents and could sometimes take years to come through. Invitations for people to come and collect their prize money were placed in the London Gazette.

There would be deductions of course. In 1805, you had to be earning 50 or more per year to be liable to Income Tax, but for everyone in the Royal Navy, deductions were made for the Chatham Chest and for the Greenwich Hospital.

"I did not say that the French will not come, I said they will not come by sea" - Lord St Vincent

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 10:21:17 »
You're welcome. A great number of ships paid off in 1802/1803 due to the Peace of Amiens, that brief interlude between the French Revolutionary War and the Napoleonic War. After he was paid off, received his share of Prize Money and his wages, he was free to go. He probably didn't volunteer for another ship afterwards and likely joined HMS Temeraire when he was picked up by a Press Gang. On being brought aboard the Receiving Ship (not HMS Temeraire) he would likely have made his mark showing that he volunteered. That way he would have been due an extra payment for volunteering rather than going on the books as a pressed boy.

Bilgerat:

What sort of pay would a " boy " have received for serving onboard HMS Temeraire?

regards
Mike


Mike Gunnill

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Otterham Kent - Your Heritage.

Offline Bilgerat

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2016, 09:33:55 »
You're welcome. A great number of ships paid off in 1802/1803 due to the Peace of Amiens, that brief interlude between the French Revolutionary War and the Napoleonic War. After he was paid off, received his share of Prize Money and his wages, he was free to go. He probably didn't volunteer for another ship afterwards and likely joined HMS Temeraire when he was picked up by a Press Gang. On being brought aboard the Receiving Ship (not HMS Temeraire) he would likely have made his mark showing that he volunteered. That way he would have been due an extra payment for volunteering rather than going on the books as a pressed boy.
"I did not say that the French will not come, I said they will not come by sea" - Lord St Vincent

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2016, 09:21:55 »
Thank you again Bilgerat.  My subject is listed as a " boy " on the crew muster.  After 1803 when he received a share of prize money he just disappears.

Very grateful that you shared your knowledge.

kind regards
Mike
Mike Gunnill

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Offline Bilgerat

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 18:55:10 »
It depends on the circumstances. You say your subject was a 15yr old. In what capacity did he join HMS Temeraire? At the age of 15, he would have either been a Boy or a Midshipman. As a boy, at 15, he would have been too old and too big to perform tasks carried out by younger, smaller children. As a small boy on a day-to-day basis, he would have been employed as a servant, probably either in the Wardroom, the Great Cabin (where the Captain lived), or for one of the senior warrant officers such as the Boatswain, Gunner, Carpenter. The other Senior Warrant Officers, the Sailing Master, the Surgeon and the Purser lived in the Wardroom with the commissioned officers. This is because in their duties, they reported directly to the Captain, rather than to the First Lieutenant like the others. When the ship was weighing anchor, the small boys would have been employed as nippers and in action, as powder monkeys.

At the age of 15 however, it's likely that your subject would have moved beyond those duties and would have been employed as either a Seaman or a servant. If that was the case, the chances are that he would already have been in Portsmouth or Plymouth and was transferred to HMS Temeraire from another ship. Alternatively, he may have been pressed aboard HMS Temeraire after having been paid off from another ship.

If your subject was a Midshipman, he was an officer in training and if that were the case, he would have received orders to report to HMS Temeraire and would have been expected to make his own way to Portsmouth or Plymouth. As a Midshipman being assigned to HMS Temeraire, it's likely that he would have had some connection to the Captain, who at the time was Eliab Harvey, or to Vice-Admiral Lord Nelson (Commander-in-Chief, Mediterranean Fleet, to whose fleet HMS Temeraire was being detached), or to Admiral the Honourable Sir William Cornwallis (Commander-in-Chief, Channel Fleet, to whose fleet the ship was actually assigned to) or perhaps one of their subordinate captains or flag-officers. Although the Royal Navy was very much a meritocracy at the time, getting a posting as a Midshipman was still very much a matter of who rather than what you knew. The Royal Navy was riddled with nepotism at the time. Don't forget that the young Horatio Nelson owed the start of his naval career to his uncle, Maurice Suckling, who was captain of the first two ships he served in, HMS Raisonnable (which Suckling commissioned from brand-new) and HMS Triumph (which he took over after she recommissioned from the Chatham Ordinary), both of which ships he joined at Chatham.

So, do you know what the circumstances were and who, if anyone, your subject was connected to?

If you want to find your subject aboard HMS Temeraire, the best place to look would be the ships Muster Book, which will be available to view at the National Archive.
"I did not say that the French will not come, I said they will not come by sea" - Lord St Vincent

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2016, 11:30:40 »
Dear Bilgerat

You may be able to help me further.  I have a 15 year old in Chatham, the next he has joined HMS Temeraire.  According my details the ship would have been in Portsmouth or Plymouth at the time.  Is this usual and would it mean the boy making his own way to the ship?

I am grateful

Mike
Mike Gunnill

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Offline mikegunnill

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2016, 20:02:11 »
Bilgerat:

Many thanks for your full reply. Very grateful. The ship was HMS Temeraire.

regards

Mike
Mike Gunnill

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Offline Bilgerat

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Re: 1805 Crew ?
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2016, 18:56:18 »
If a repair was to last that long, it would have to be fairly major. The crew would be paid off, though in 1805, the Royal Navy was desperately short of men, so it's more likely they would be transferred to other ships. It must be remembered that a seaman didn't belong to the Royal Navy, he belonged to the ship, so in theory, when she paid off, he was free to go. The only people who would remain with the ship during a major refit, or when the ship went into the Ordinary, would be her Boatswain, Carpenter, Gunner, their respective Mates and servants. The ship would come under the command of the Master Attendant. The Captain or commander, commissioned and the other warrant officers such as her Sailing Master and Surgeon would also be posted to other ships.

Prior to recommissioning, the ship would be assigned a Commanding Officer and First Lieutenant and they between them would be responsible for liasing with the Impressment Service (during wartime), the Admiralty and the Port Admiral in order to find a crew for the ship. Commissioned Officers would receive orders from the Admiralty to report aboard the ship. Senior Warrant Officers such as the Surgeon, Purser and Sailing Master would also receive their orders from the Admiralty.

In 1805, Chatham wasn't a fleet base, it was a building yard, although there was a division of the Ordinary, or fleet reserve based there. The fact that a ship was Chatham-built was irrelevant. Once commissioned, a ship would not be based in Chatham. If she was assigned to home waters, she would be in the Channel Fleet, based in Portsmouth or Plymouth, or the North Sea Fleet, based at Sheerness or Yarmouth.
"I did not say that the French will not come, I said they will not come by sea" - Lord St Vincent

Offline mikegunnill

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1805 Crew ?
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2016, 18:11:18 »
If a Chatham built ship was sent for repairs to Plymouth in 1805, lasting 18 months.  What would happen to the crew?

regards

Mike
Mike Gunnill

Upchurch in old picture postcards.
Otterham Kent - Your Heritage.

 

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