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Author Topic: What does Ber, mean?  (Read 8072 times)

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Offline mikegunnill

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #38 on: February 18, 2016, 18:20:54 »
Nemo:

The inscription on the grave, may be we will never know -the-why!

When I visited Margate, walking away I looked at the reverse side of the Booth grave.  On the other side of the gravestone is a set of inscription for the Pound family.  So when Sophia Caroline Booth returned o Margate, she was reunited with her second husband, John Booth and first husband Henry Pound.  All in the same grave!

Mike
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Offline Nemo

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2016, 16:38:07 »
Mikegunnill: congratulations on your breakthrough - you had better luck than I did: Sophia Caroline Booth died intestate and hence her surviving son Daniel John Pound applied for and was granted Letters of Administration.  The granting document (my term) indicates that her estate was less than 300 and included no leaseholds.

The grave inscription as at 1971 is interesting (although A.S. Harcourt made or copied the error of 'Caroline Sophia', since we have already seen that the grave says 'Sophia Caroline').  Interesting because it leaves open to question who caused 'December 19th' to be inscribed after 'John BOOTH, gentleman' - and when.  One would have thought that it was inscribed after his death in 1833, making the date wrong and pre-dating any "Turner aka Booth" connotations.  Alternatively, Mrs Booth caused it to be inscribed after Turner's death, or Daniel John Pound did likewise after her death.  But either of those notions seems repugnant, since a) both parties had reason to be financially grateful to John Booth, b) presumably his body is interred in the grave and c) it would rather leave John Booth without an inscription truly his own.

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2016, 15:37:57 »
The Booth grave inscription 1971.

Margate, with John BOOTH, in churchyard, south side MI (A.S.Harcourt, 1971,
Kent Memorial Inscriptions III): Sacred to the memory of John Pound BOOTH the beloved and only son of
John and Caroline Sophia BOOTH, who died June 26 1832 in the 7th year of his age. Sacred to the memory
of John BOOTH, gentleman, who died .. December 19th. Sacred to the memory of Caroline Sophia
BOOTH, relict of the above named John BOOTH, died June 15th 1878, aged 80 years.


There is a space between ....." gentleman, who died " and the wording ..."December 19th".


Mike
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Offline mikegunnill

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2016, 21:03:03 »
The break through, I needed today.  I have found two addresses that Turner stayed at in Deal.  One where he was visited by Dr David Price.


Mike
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Offline mikegunnill

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2016, 21:31:28 »
I must admit Deal does sound like my sort of town, in those days!

Mr Booth did have a house in Deal and they did return there after the wedding.  Mrs Booth was keen to get back to Margate however and to start her guest house.  Turner was tight with money.  I thought if he knew Mrs B had a house there, he would have moved there.  At the time lots more people were visiting and moving to Margate.  He had complained to friends of local gossip.  Perhaps he was frightened of been " exposed as Mr Turner - the painter ".

There are hints in a few books about moving to Deal but nothing that names or even mentions an address.   It is this part of my tale, that interests me now.  Knowing how secret Turner liked to be, for him it would be ideal.  Any old members of this forum, who would have been in Deal at the same time as Turner?  It may be my only hope.

Thank you all.

Mike
Mike Gunnill

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Offline grandarog

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2016, 18:20:09 »
Nemo . Gorrect Typo I meant Booth as shown on image.

Mike .Yes Margate , Mariner.

Mike regarding them returning to Deal after their marriage in 1830 .I wouldn`t think they would have wanted to live there.
Quote from Cobbett.

William Cobbett passing through in September 1823 noted in his book Rural Rides:

   Deal is a most villainous place. It is full of filthy-looking people. Great desolation of abomination has been going on here; tremendous barracks, partly pulled down and partly tumbling down, and partly occupied by soldiers. Everything seems upon the perish. I was glad to hurry along through it, and to leave its inns and public-houses to be occupied by the tarred, and trowsered, and blue and buff crew whose very vicinage I always detest.

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2016, 16:57:14 »
Rog:

I meant the word before curate, is it mariner?


Thx

Mike Gunnill

Upchurch in old picture postcards.
Otterham Kent - Your Heritage.

Offline grandarog

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2016, 14:14:54 »
 Nemo :-I have modified my post .

 Mike :-The word is Curate (he buried all on that register page). You missed Nemo's point, he was referring to John Pound Booth, not Daniel.
 
       You wondered why John and Sophia were married in St Clement Danes. On the registry entry it states John Pound of this Parish. So he was living there prior to marriage. Sophia is shown as a Widow of St John the Baptist in the Isle of Thanet, Kent.
                                                          Rog.

Offline Nemo

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2016, 14:06:22 »
Mikegunnill: yes, but if John Booth married Sophia Pound in 1830 in London, they already had John Pound Booth by then.  Similar sort of things in my family too, actually!

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2016, 14:03:24 »
Nemo:

Daniel John Pound was the son of Henry Pound and Sophia Caroline Pound. Father Henry Pound drown 1821, DJP was born 1820
Mike Gunnill

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Offline Nemo

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2016, 13:55:14 »
Mikegunnill: so John Pound Booth was born "outside the purple" then?

I see the 1851 census "highlights" have a Sophia C Booth of London down as a 52 yr old fundholder, born Dover 1799.

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2016, 13:53:06 »
Grandarog:

Daniel John Pound 1820-1894, I have his death at Brentford, Middlesex leaving a widow and one daughter.

On the jpg you posted: what is the word after  Pound - Margate -? - Curate ?

regards
Mike

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Upchurch in old picture postcards.
Otterham Kent - Your Heritage.

Offline Nemo

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2016, 13:50:53 »
Grandarog: I don't think the chap buried in 1854 is Daniel John Pound, since DJP was granted administration of his mother's estate after her death, his address being given as Lavender Cottage, Bayswater Road, Mddx: https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar?surname=booth&yearOfDeath=1878&page=7#calendar.  I thought I'd treat myself to that one too, but it hasn't arrived yet.

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2016, 13:27:58 »
Nemo:

I went through his Will recently.  In the books where mentioned, he is called a " businessman from Deal ".  It was Deal they returned to as a married couple after their wedding in 1830 at the Saint Clement Danes Church in the Strand, London, opposite the Royal Courts of Justice.

Not sure why they were married in London and is seems " little posh" for Mrs Pound/Booth.

I wonder if Mrs Booth retained the Deal house after Mr Booth's death.  I think Turner and Booth moved from Margate to Deal in 1836-ish.  I wonder if they used the old Mr Booth house, where ever this is!!!!  I have searched without success for a mention of Mr or Mrs Booth in Deal.

Instead of a feature, this could be a book!

Thank you again for your interest.  I am running dry with new ideas so, I am grateful for any comments.


regards
Mike
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Offline grandarog

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Re: What does Ber, mean?
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2016, 13:20:44 »
May be this chap is recorded on some of missing area of the gravestone.
Baptised 1820

 

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