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Author Topic: Where Again?  (Read 7017 times)

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Offline DGM

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2016, 09:46:44 »
Having discounted bridges over both Gas House Rd and The Common at Rochester as the location I have searched further afield and now believe the original photo was taken in Margate.  Both bridges still exist and are located between the Eastern end of Margate Station and another bridge crossing All Saints Avenue, they originally crossed above a road that ran parallel to All Saints Avenue providing access to the South side of Margate Station.  This link to Google Street View shows the bridge from the Eastern end of Fulsam Place, the bus is standing in this area in the original photo  -  http://maps.google.com/maps?layer=c&panoid=7GpBPqDZYkO_i3tGR0GOiw&cbp=1%2C58.36019%2C%2C3.0%2C7.989998
My reasons for selecting this location are that the steelwork and riveting on the nearer bridge span, the distance between the two spans, the slightly lower hight of the further span and the former road layout under the bridges all appear to match the original photo.  What is not clear to me is why the bridges and road beneath them were constructed as they parallel the remaining All Saints Avenue and only appear to have provided an alternative route between the seafront and south side of Margate Station.  Perhaps someone with a better knowledge of Margate could confirm that the location is correct and perhaps offer an explanation as to why the bridges were built and have subsequently been abandoned.

Offline jimawilliams

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2016, 01:08:08 »
mikeb would you be able/willing to share the registration number,  it is not clear in the image that I can view, thankyou.
"Change is the only constant"

Offline mikeb

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2016, 21:59:34 »
The bus, new in 1940, and was sold out of service in 1956 to a dealer at Dunchurch. Then to an operator named Taylor in Bicester where it was withdrawn in 1959. Interestingly, it was noted in 1965 in use as a scoreboard at Banbury cricket ground!
The original photo title refers to "A Maidstone & District bus checking bridge height", but fails to mention the location.

Offline DS239

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2016, 20:32:36 »

I cannot confirm that the photo was actually taken in Kent, but, we do know that the bus only worked out of Gravesend and Gillingham. The bus was sold off in 1956.

Mike,do you know where the bus was sold to? Could the photo depict the new owners testing it for clearance on one of their routes? Before carrying their livery...

Offline conan

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2016, 20:05:36 »
Nothing to do with the puzzle but I've just noticed that on the second picture on smiffys post 11, the bridge is actually under demolition. You can see the cross girders and straight through to the road, complete with shadows, underneath.
To remain ignorant of what happened before you were born is to remain a child......Cicero

Offline mikeb

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2016, 16:20:31 »
First let me thank you all for your continuing interest.
I cannot confirm that the photo was actually taken in Kent, but, we do know that the bus only worked out of Gravesend and Gillingham. The bus was sold off in 1956.
Looking at the photo's / maps etc I must agree that of the two options, the angle of the bridges etc show it probably was Common Road not Gas House Road, if we are indeed in this neck of the woods! The retaining wall between the bridges is a problem. Could it be that these walls were taken out as no longer being required when the redundant girders were removed? The alignment of Corporation Street has been altered at this junction to reduce what was a quite sharp bend,  has this changed the perspective? The road at this point originally ran along side the railway  but has now been slewed to the left leaving a wide pavement area that was not there in the photo. I believe from memory the road level was built up so was this carried under the remaining bridge as well?
Like you nemo I have scanned around "M&D land" and cannot find another possibility.

Offline Bryn Clinch

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2016, 15:59:30 »
I have no knowledge of this area but have noticed, what appears to be an atrium at approx. 2 o`clock in reply#2 and to the left of the black post in the third photo in reply#7. Is this of any help?

Offline Nemo

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2016, 15:10:38 »
I agree with Smiffy – I don’t feel the love for either the Corporation Street – The Common (or vice versa) or the Corporation Street – Gas House Road (or vice versa) solutions.

What I’m seeing in MikeB’s original image is essentially:
- a pair of bridges close enough to share the same brick retaining walls
- a road that curves to the left under or immediately behind the bridge further from the camera and
- (probably) a road running left to right in front of the bridge nearer to the camera.

Judging by the shared pavements, the road dips under the bridges – hence the nearer bridge bears no height restriction sign and the bus is ‘highbridge’.  The shadows on the road suggest to me that the bridges and gap between them are of equal width (as in “thickness”).  Finally, the nearer bridge seems somewhat skewed, away from the camera on the right.

However, in Jimawilliams’ 1960 AP shot, neither The Common nor Gas House Road has a pair of bridges that appear to share the same walls, and I’m not convinced about the skew of the bridge either.

Here's the 1954 OS:

Offline smiffy

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2016, 15:05:16 »
I thought myself that this was Gas House Road at first. Now I am pretty sure that it isn't.

Take a good look at the original picture. First thing to note is the kerb at bottom right indicating a road joining from the right. Secondly, the bridges are at a slight angle to the road and the road is straight where it passes underneath. Note that after passing under the bridges, the road appears to turn to the left. Seperating the bridges, there are high brick walls either side.

Look at the overhead view of the Gas House Bridges. Assuming the camera is in the position indicated, it is obvious that, a) There is no kerb,  b) You can't even see the other bridge from this position,  c) The bridge is parallel to the road and the road beyond curves right, not left and d)  There are no brick walls. If you look at it from the opposite direction you would still be presented with these problems.

The Common doesn't seem to fit at all, apart from the other things mentioned you can see that the angle of the bridges are completely wrong.

I've had a look around other Kent towns to see if there are any similar layouts - it would appear that double bridges like this seem to to be quite rare. Do we know for sure that this is even in Kent?

Offline smiler

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2016, 11:09:31 »
conans 1960 pic shows the old railway bridge 2nd pic shows after bridge made into the road it is today. Corporation Street was widened and that bridge with bus removed.

Offline jimawilliams

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2016, 10:24:48 »
The address below takes you to the current Google Street View looking at  rear bridge in the origional photograph along The Common

https://www.google.com.au/maps/@51.391522,0.5040195,3a,31.5y,165.3h,86.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJ0TAJEsPsK9lYbqqC7wB4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
"Change is the only constant"

Offline jimawilliams

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2016, 10:18:07 »
A very interesting photograph and having spent a few hours researching I believe the following to be correct.

The photograph was taken looking south at the bus that was travelling North along The Common under a bridge that is no longer in existence.  The Common used to connect with Corporation Street (northern bound traffic lane today.)  The red arrow shows the location and direction of the photo being taken looking south. 

The superimposed bus has been placed on to the current view of The Common. The rear bridge in the background of the original photo (behind the bus) is still there and the Google Street View (in black and white) shows how it looks today.
"Change is the only constant"

Offline conan

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2016, 23:00:06 »
I think DGM is right.If you look at these 2 images,the first from 1960 and look where the A2 is marked there are buildings ,but if you check the second,from 2015 there is a car park,So it looks like the original white place has been demolished





A close up from street view shows 2 white fronted properties,the left hand one does not line up with the view through the bridge arches and the right hand one is the wrong shape




To remain ignorant of what happened before you were born is to remain a child......Cicero

Offline DGM

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2016, 19:26:30 »
Thanks for the explanation mikeb.  If I now understand correctly, the bus is standing under the now removed span of the bridge which formerly crossed The Common. This is the bridge that appears off to the right hand side of conan's photo, however having perused Google Street View the white building in the original photo no longer appears to exist.

Offline mikeb

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Re: Where Again?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2016, 23:38:36 »
I take the point DGM. There were originally two sets of bridges here, making four girder spans altogether, at more or less, the same location. One pair over Gas House Road, the remaining one is shown in conan's photo, and a second pair over Common Road the surviving span of which can also be seen. The Common Road pair were indeed wider as that road came in at an angle whereas Gas House Road is more or less at a right angle. The Common Road junction with Corporation Street has been closed off now.

 

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