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Author Topic: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?  (Read 578 times)

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Offline grandarog

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2017, 14:39:25 »
Baptised as Samuell  ARGALL  on 4th December 1580. at East Sutton .(2 l,s on Samuell no Y in Argall)

There are records of

                William Argall             Buried  06 Jul 1579 at East Sutton. Father Rychard
                Henry   Argall             Buried 06 Jul 1579 at  East Sutton       ----I---

                Rychard Argall           Baptised  20 Feb 1573 
               
                Mary Argall                Baptised  02 Nov 1573

                Kateryn Argall            Baptised  05 Jun 1575

                Benjamyn  Argall       Baptised  25 Nov 1576

          Hery Argall                 Baptised   26 Jan 1577

               Robert Argall              Baptised  27 Sep 1579

               If they were  siblings of Samuell  his  Father was Rychard Argall. The Lord of East Sutton.
               No mother names on baptism records Either  Joan or Mary.

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2017, 13:35:55 »
This is the Samuel Argall who was governor of Virginia and who kidnapped and detained Pocohontas.

Yes BromptonBoy:  He came from East Sutton, where the prison is now and is best known for detaining Pocahontas.  He was also Captain of the ship, when she fell ill and they had to call at Gravesend.  Trying to locate a painting, which may have him receiving his knighthood in 1622.

Mike
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Offline mikegunnill

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 13:32:05 »
Thx again Longpockets:

I spoke to the press department who made " several telephone calls ".   I find it strange, there are hardly any mentions of James 1 in Rochester in 1622 - inspecting his fleet. If of course that wasn't cover for something else!  I have Greenwich Maritime looking again at their listings of incoming paintings from Chatham at closure.  I live in hope!

Mike

Yes I did, but I have slept since then, killed off too many brain cells with drink and the memory has drifted away unfortunately.

I have failed to find what buildings were in Rochester in 1622

Who did you speak to at Chatham? If it was not the Chatham Dockyard Historical Society they may be worth a go -

Chatham Dockyard Historical Society


I will try and have a word with them next time they are in attendance when I am there.
Mike Gunnill

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Offline bromptonboy

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2017, 11:42:52 »
This is the Samuel Argall who was governor of Virginia and who kidnapped and detained Pocohontas.

Offline Nemo

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 22:42:14 »
I note the spelling on't net is Argall (of Pocahontas fame).

Offline Longpockets

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 18:58:45 »
Yes I did, but I have slept since then, killed off too many brain cells with drink and the memory has drifted away unfortunately.

I have failed to find what buildings were in Rochester in 1622

Who did you speak to at Chatham? If it was not the Chatham Dockyard Historical Society they may be worth a go -

Chatham Dockyard Historical Society


I will try and have a word with them next time they are in attendance when I am there.

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2017, 17:49:24 »
Longpockets thank you.  My money is on the Bishop's Palace where he stayed before but but but??

Greenwich came back quickly with a negative reply. No record of such a painting, but then as they said without an artist or subject tittle it is hard.  I don't have anywhere to go now! 

Longpockets don't you remember this as a young boy?  Did you visit personally ?

regards

Mike


Another contender for the ceremony could be Rochester Castle.

The history of the castle contains several gaps, but knowledge of the period between the 15th and 17th centuries is particularly scant. The castle, presumably the keep, was still potentially usable for sessions of the Assizes in 1621 but was ruinous by 1665 when Samuel Pepys visited.[13] The suggestion that the keep was finally ruined and abandoned after a fire between these dates cannot be verified on present knowledge.

Source English Heritage

Kent History and Library Centre

U274/01: copy letter from the Duke of Lennox to the Justices of the Peace recommending Rochester Castle as a fitter place than Maidstone for the next Session [reference to latter’s ‘new charter’ (1619)], 1621.

Source English Heritage

There may be something else in their research sources that may help.
Mike Gunnill

Upchurch in old picture postcards.
Otterham Kent - Your Heritage.

Offline Longpockets

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2017, 08:07:20 »
Another contender for the ceremony could be Rochester Castle.

The history of the castle contains several gaps, but knowledge of the period between the 15th and 17th centuries is particularly scant. The castle, presumably the keep, was still potentially usable for sessions of the Assizes in 1621 but was ruinous by 1665 when Samuel Pepys visited.[13] The suggestion that the keep was finally ruined and abandoned after a fire between these dates cannot be verified on present knowledge.

Source English Heritage

Kent History and Library Centre

U274/01: copy letter from the Duke of Lennox to the Justices of the Peace recommending Rochester Castle as a fitter place than Maidstone for the next Session [reference to latter’s ‘new charter’ (1619)], 1621.

Source English Heritage

There may be something else in their research sources that may help.



Offline mikegunnill

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2017, 07:02:04 »
It seems King James visited Rochester in August 1606 along with the King of Denmark. James stayed at the Bishop's Palace, next to Rochester Cathedral.  I can find no record where he stayed yet in 1622, June 26th but it may have been the same location.  As mentioned all the major art works were moved from the Dockyard when it closed.  This was confirmed by Chatham Dockyard, yesterday afternoon. It was suggested I contact The National Museum of The Royal Navy who have just taken over the MoD’s painting collection. This proved negative, so I am left with the National Maritime Museum.  They say they will search their records and reply within 14 days.  It would be good to locate this painting. I am still searching

Thank you all for your continued help.

Mike


A bit more -

1547 - established in the Medway. 1567 - established by Queen Elizabeth I. 1581 - first dry dock built. 1590 - large, three storey storehouse built. 1599 - Phineas Pett became keeper of the Plank Yard. 1605 - special workshops for galley repair constructed. 1619 - construction of a new shipyard started. 1620 - sail loft completed. 1621 - rope house completed. 1622 - officers’ residences completed. Moved from original (now the gun wharf to the south) to present location.

From - Science Museum
Mike Gunnill

Upchurch in old picture postcards.
Otterham Kent - Your Heritage.

Offline Longpockets

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2017, 19:53:50 »
A bit more -

1547 - established in the Medway. 1567 - established by Queen Elizabeth I. 1581 - first dry dock built. 1590 - large, three storey storehouse built. 1599 - Phineas Pett became keeper of the Plank Yard. 1605 - special workshops for galley repair constructed. 1619 - construction of a new shipyard started. 1620 - sail loft completed. 1621 - rope house completed. 1622 - officers’ residences completed. Moved from original (now the gun wharf to the south) to present location.

From - Science Museum

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2017, 08:22:17 »

Thank you Longpockets, I am grateful.


Mike,

Although Restoration House was not named Restoration house until Charles II returned to England the building did exist earlier.

"Restoration House as we see it today is the amalgamation of two medieval buildings which were combined in the late 16th or early 17th century to create a mansion house just outside the south east corner of the city wall Restoration House is a unique survival of a city mansion." from Restoration House website.

Another contender could be Eastgate House. Built 1590 for Peter Buck (later Sir, died 1625), Clerk of the Cheque at the Dockyard. I believe he was an Alderman and also Mayor of the city at some point. I believe he commuted to work by boat.

The Dockyard at that time may not have been sited where it is now, certainly the Tudor Dockyard was located nearer to Rochester than the current dockyard.

There is also the chance he was not knighted within a building, the ceremony could well have taken place outside.
Mike Gunnill

Upchurch in old picture postcards.
Otterham Kent - Your Heritage.

Offline Longpockets

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 21:53:26 »
Mike,

Although Restoration House was not named Restoration house until Charles II returned to England the building did exist earlier.

"Restoration House as we see it today is the amalgamation of two medieval buildings which were combined in the late 16th or early 17th century to create a mansion house just outside the south east corner of the city wall Restoration House is a unique survival of a city mansion." from Restoration House website.

Another contender could be Eastgate House. Built 1590 for Peter Buck (later Sir, died 1625), Clerk of the Cheque at the Dockyard. I believe he was an Alderman and also Mayor of the city at some point. I believe he commuted to work by boat.

The Dockyard at that time may not have been sited where it is now, certainly the Tudor Dockyard was located nearer to Rochester than the current dockyard.

There is also the chance he was not knighted within a building, the ceremony could well have taken place outside.

Offline mikegunnill

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 18:48:29 »
Hello Signals99

Do you mean the Chatham Navy Base for the Admiral Superintendent's House?

Thank you for your reply
Mike



Hi Mikegunnill, don't know if this will give you a lead, ref. your request. At one time there was a small oil painting hanging in the Admiral Superintendent`s house showing a number of people engaged in, what appeared to be, some sort of ceremony involving a person kneeling and someone standing before him with a sword or rod extended towards him.
As I recall, the dress would appear to be of that era and in the background were ships of the line ?
But please bear in mind I'm going back thirty years of so, such a large amount of the dockyard art went to the maritime museum, may be worth an inquiry there.     
Mike Gunnill

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Otterham Kent - Your Heritage.

Offline Signals99

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Re: King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 13:19:55 »
Hi Mikegunnill, don't know if this will give you a lead, ref. your request. At one time there was a small oil painting hanging in the Admiral Superintendent`s house showing a number of people engaged in, what appeared to be, some sort of ceremony involving a person kneeling and someone standing before him with a sword or rod extended towards him.
As I recall, the dress would appear to be of that era and in the background were ships of the line ?
But please bear in mind I'm going back thirty years of so, such a large amount of the dockyard art went to the maritime museum, may be worth an inquiry there.     

Offline mikegunnill

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King James 1, Rochester 1622 ?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2017, 09:16:53 »
Dear All:

Samuel Argyall was knighted on June 26th 1622 by King James 1 at Rochester.  The King then viewed his ships at Chatham and the next day had lunch at Cobham Hall.

Where would the ceremony be held, the Cathedral, or Corn Exchange?

I had thought of Restoration House in Rochester, but this wasn't referred to under this name until after James 1. Reports say, the King viewed his ships that day at Chatham and then had lunch at Cobham Hall.  Grateful for any suggestions.

Regards

Mike
Mike Gunnill

Upchurch in old picture postcards.
Otterham Kent - Your Heritage.

 

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