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Offline sheppey_bottles

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2009, 15:44:36 »
I shall have to look out for that book Karlostg, the info contained there seems to be just what I need.PS..I luv a pint but it doesn't luv me  :) As regards the Shepherd neame type bottle, yes it looks like it could contain Spitfire but the lip of this Crown cork bottle is early and as I said before this type of beer bottle was made in two parts whereas the modern ones are made one piece in a mould.This Wastall bottle dates to the first decade of the 1900's roughly.  seafordpete you may have answered a question about a bottle of mine.I have wondered if my Temperance beer was from Fremlins or a sperate company but from what you say they could have been one and the same! This bottle is the only one I have ever seen from this maidstone brewery..unless someone knows otherwise of course..


Offline karlostg

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2009, 15:16:18 »
From the book "The Brewing industry: a guide to historical records By Lesley Richmond, Alison Turton"

"EDWARD WINCH & SONS LTD
Chatham Brewery, High Street, Chatham, Kent
History: The Best family were in business as brewers in Chatham, Kent, from at least the time of Thomas Best's death in 1666, although it was probably Thomas's son who converted some small tenements in Chatham High Street into a brewhouse. The business expanded during the eighteenth century, especially during the lifetime of James Best, senior, and numerous public houses were acquired in Chatham and district. The Best family gave up personal interest in the business in 1851 when the brewery was leased to Edward Wineh. The lease was renewed several times and the brewery was finally sold to Edward Winch & Sons in 1894. Edward Winch & Sons Ltd was registered in 1891 as a limited liability company to acquire the business. The company merged in 1899 wth AF Style & Co, Medway Brewery, Maidstone, Kent, to form Style & Winch Ltd, and the Chatham Brewery closed.

STYLE & WINCH LTD
Medway Brewery, St Peter's Street, Maidstone, Kent
History: William Baldwin built the Medway Brewery, Maidstone, Kent, in 1806.
John Holme subsequently joined the partnership which traded during the 1850s as Baldwin & Holmes and during the 186os as Holmes & Style. The firm was known as A F Style & Co from 1880. Style & Winch Ltd was registered in March 1899 as a limited liability company to acquire and amalgamate the businesses of A F Style & Co and E Winch & Sons Ltd, Chatham Brewery, Chatham, Kent (est.c:.I666), at a purchase price of ?1,020,640. The Chatham Brewery closed in 1899, all brewing being concentrated at Maidstone. The company took over Henry Simmons, Style Place Brewery, Hadlow, Kent, and H & 0 Vallance, The Brewery, Sittingbourne, Kent, in 1905; Tooting Brewery in 1907; Ashford Breweries Ltd, Lion Brewery, Ashford, Kent, in 1912; Woodhams & Co Ltd, Rochester Steam Brewery, Rochester, Kent, in 1918; E Finn & Co Ltd, Pale Ale Brewery, Lydd, Kent, in 1921; Royal Brewery (Brentford) Ltd, Royal Brewery, Brentford, .Middlesex, in 1922; and Danford Brewery Co Ltd, Danford, Kent, in 1924. The company was acquired, along with 600 licensed houses, by Barclay, Perkins & Co Ltd, London, in 1929. "

Offline karlostg

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2009, 14:53:04 »
I am not a great drinker myself but I do appreciate a good micro brewery type beer ( real ale), just the sound of 'Gravesend Shrimpers' sounds like it should taste nice.

I am a drinker, and it is a very good beer!

This may sound like an anoraky thing to say but the design of the first bottle in the picture is very similar to the ones Shepherd Neame use now.

seafordpete

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2009, 14:46:47 »
I. Now Whitbread..what a company and still going strong after all these years,



Whitbread only have Brewers Fayre, Travel Inns now. All the brewing was sold off any beer with that name is produced by Inbev. Great bottles, something about the embossed that gave them class. The flagons were phased out about 1974 when I was on a Bottling course at Bell Bry  Tottenham. The stoppers were still  put in by hand, the women wore a glove thing called a "flogger" that had a grip for the stopper in ( bit like a sailmakers palm) . Seeing the Style & Winck jug and pot trademark I wonder what happened to the weather vane at Maidstone bry that was that design?
Other excellent books on brewing History are " Red Barrel"  which is the story of Watney from about the same period as Whitbread and "70 Rolling Years" by Sidney Neville who started as a pupil brewer in Brighton about 1890, became head of the liquor board of control in WW1 and was eventually a finance director at Whitbread until about 1965.
Seeing your "hop  ale" reminds me that the bottom yard at Fremlins  with a gate onto Fairmeadow/Earl St junction was known as the NTA yard from when there was a National Temperance Ale brewery there. When I started there in 1970 the Blacksmith/farrier  still had a forge there.

Offline sheppey_bottles

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2009, 14:11:49 »
I am not a great drinker myself but I do appreciate a good micro brewery type beer ( real ale), just the sound of 'Gravesend Shrimpers' sounds like it should taste nice. Now Whitbread..what a company and still going strong after all these years, so so many smaller companies merged and were taken over to get the company to the position it is in today, what a history that company has. A good book about Whitbreads is called 'An uncommon brewer' by Berry Ritchie it traces the story from 1742 up till 1992 ans should not be too difficult to find. I know the books you refered to earlier Seafordpete, I have one from the run called 'The brewers art' and are part of the Whitbread library series..they cost Five Shillings NET each !! As regards the trademarks I was speaking of earlier please see below a picture of some old bottles with embossed pictorial marks.
They are from left to right..Wastall of ramsgate, Truman of London, East Kent Brewery Sandwich, Style and Winch of Maidstone, Whitbread of London, Arkcoll of Chatham and Merrett of Rochester. The last being a mineral water company that sold Hop Ale and non intoxicating brews amongst others. All the bottles were mould blown and have a lip that was applied as a seperate item after the screw thread was formed and the metal was still molten..ish.The three sizes are Quart (2 Pint), Pint and Half Pint.



seafordpete

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2009, 18:00:34 »
Melvilles Kent Directory 1858

Cooper & Hayward      Bexley
Ash & Sons   Watling St   Canterbury
Baggs & Dray   Longport   Canterbury
Beer & Co    Broad St   Canterbury
Flint & Kingsford   St Dunstans St   Canterbury
Rigden & James   Beer Cart St   Canterbury
Fleet   Lowfield St   Dartford
Miskin & Black   Hythe St   Dartford
Reeves & Co (late Pittocks)   High St   Dartford
Tasker   Lowfield St   Dartford
Hight & Sons   Golden St    Deal
Hill & Sons   Lower St   Deal
Thomas Huntley   Castle St   Dover
Page   Limekiln St    Dover
Poulter   Russell St   Dover
Walker   Dolphin La   Dover
Fox
 & Sons      Grinstead Green
Harrison & Taylor      Hadlow
Simmons & Martin   Style Place Bry   Hadlow
Thomas Smith      Lamberhurst
Nicholl Harry & Vincent   Nr Railway   Lewisham
Barker      Loose
Baldwin Godden & Holmes   Medway Bry   Maidstone
Brenchley & Stacey   Stone St   Maidstone
Hills & Baker   Stone St   Maidstone
Martin & Sons   Havock La   Maidstone
Cobb   King St   Margate
Culmer   Brewers Arms High St   Margate
Robert Cramp    Cannon Bry High St   Ramsgate
Richard & William Tomson   Queen St   Ramsgate
James & Henry Smith      Sevenoaks
Frederick Smith   High St   Sevenoaks
Newnham & Kelsey   London Rd   T Wells
William Curteis      Tenterden
Burtram   High St   Tonbridge
Edmund Thompson & Son      Upper Walmer
Leney      Wateringbury
Daniel James   High St & Wall   Whitstable

Offline peterchall

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2009, 16:17:32 »
The cards are actually light alloy. At one stage c1945 there were aircraft parts dumped at Blue Boar Lane, Rochester, probably surplus stuff from Short's when production was cut-back at the end of the war. Material for the cards could have come from somewhere like that.

PC
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seafordpete

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2009, 15:24:11 »
I have just been out and thinking about this while driving.You are quite right. I had a set of books that Whitbread produced about 1948-50 such as The Brewers craft  but one of them had a chapter about sign writing which had pictures of some of the cards. Amazing that with the post war shortages they were making the cards  at all never mind out of metal. P

Offline peterchall

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2009, 14:49:04 »
Seafordpete,
I've just found this on Amazon.

Whitbread - The Inn Behind the Signs, and a History of the Breweries: A History of the 250 Public Houses Included in the Five Series of Whitbread Inn Signs Issued Between 1949 and 1955 (Paperback) by David J.R. Harper (Author).

So there were 5 series of the signs, and we are both right about the dates. Unfortunately the book is out of stock and not likely to be replaced.

Regards
peterchall
It's no use getting old if you don't get artful

Offline karlostg

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2009, 12:45:45 »
The current list of Kent Brewerys are

Nelson: http://www.nelsonbrewingcompany.co.uk/

Goacher's: http://www.goachers.com/

Hopdeamon: http://www.hopdaemon.com/

Ramsgate http://www.ramsgatebrewery.co.uk/

Swan: http://www.swan-on-the-green.co.uk/

Westerham: http://www.westerhambrewery.co.uk/

Whitstable: http://www.whitstablebrewery.info/

Sheps http://www.shepherdneame.co.uk

There are also two new ones started in the last few weeks, but I dont have the details to hand.

Offline peterchall

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2009, 12:33:55 »
I've been thinking. I have memories of taking bikes on a train to Wateringbury, Yalding area, and may have got some inn signs then. I did RAF National Service 1950 to 1952, married in 1952 - life changed, no more pub-crawls! So I'm pretty sure it was pre-1950.
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seafordpete

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2009, 12:14:52 »
I an suprised by "before 1950" I always thought about 1955, I can remember kids having them at school then . Pete

Offline peterchall

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2009, 12:04:07 »

Thanks Seafordpete,

Mine are the original tinplate ones.

I have memories of making 'special excursions' with mates to collect them before I went into the RAF in 1950, so they must have started late-1940s. I could only have collected local Medway ones in person, so the more distant ones must have been obtained by swapping, like fag-cards. Long time ago now!

Regards,
peterchall
 
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seafordpete

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Re: Breweries
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2009, 11:39:16 »
So much to answer, Courage were mergedwith Scottish & Newcastle about 10 years back. One of the family had a row andbroke away and set up his own pub group as Cockerel Inns. Fremilins was taken over by Whitbread in the mid 1960s, I joined in 1968. Whitbread  broke up into Whitbread Beer Co which brewed and then was merged with Bass Brewing after being taken over by Interbrew of  Belgium (about 1999 I took the money and ran) and later taken over by Inbev of Brazil
Inde Coope went to Allied Breweries along with Friary Meux , Trumans went to Watney then (I think Allied)
Wateringbury brewery had a long history of ownership before Whit
bread  including Greens, Flowers,

Kelsey of T Wells, Cobbs, Thomson & Wooton all went Fremlins> Whitbread.
Fremlins Maidstone was formerely Isherwood Stacey and Foster (not that Foster!)
George Beer & Rigden were Faversham brewers pre Fremlins buy out about 1950.
Masons of Maidstone were bought by Sheps about the same time.

Flints of Canterbury went to Beer & Ridgden > Fremlins> Whitbread

I have a map in the loft showing all the breweries in 1950, I'll  dig it out and put a scan on

The inn signs were originally tinplate, they were reproduced in plastic about 1975. 


Offline peterchall

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Breweries
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2009, 11:19:46 »
I've been thinking about 'Disappearing Brewers' in Kent. Not so much the actual breweries, but rather the brewers that owned pubs in Kent in the days when the 'tied-pub' was the norm.

1.   Courage: Piers Courage, eldest son of the Courage family, was killed driving in the 1970 Dutch GP. I think the firm till exists. Am I right?

2.   Fremlin's: Had either a depot or a small brewery in a turning off Rochester High Street, opposite the old GPO. Had a brewery at Maidstone, on the site of the new shopping centre. Their logo was an elephant. What happened to them?

3.   Ind Coope: I'm not sure if the spelling is correct. Had several pubs in Medway. What happened to them?

4.   Shepherd and Neame: Has Britain's oldest brewery, at Faversham. Still have pubs throughout Kent.

5.   Style & Winch: Had several pubs in Medway area, but I don't know anything about the brewery.

6.   Truman, Hanbury and Buxton: Commonly called just 'Truman'. One of the most numerous pubs in the Medway Towns. Do they still exist?

7.   Whitbread's: Had a brewery at Wateringbury, on the left of the hill going down towards the station. Also owned the hop-farm at East Peckham, of course. I think they are now part of a larger group.

Were there any other brewers in Kent, either having breweries or just pubs?
                                        
There was a brewer's depot of some sort at the corner of Victoria Street and East Row, Rochester. I don't think it was a brewery, although the pub opposite was called the Brewery Arms.

Has anyone else got any of the miniature replicas of Whitbread's Inn Signs? These were about the size of a playing card and were given away at the relevant Whitbread pub. They were produced in 2 series of 50, I think in the 1950s.

Here is my collection:
                    
                    
                    


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