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Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #59 on: February 05, 2014, 16:03:34 »
Mr. Smith, 26th December 1886, minuted as follows:-

“Yes, but it must be made clear in the agreement that not only the torpedo as it now exists, but every improvement in it effected by Messrs. Brennan and Temperley during the five years of their engagement becomes under the instrument the absolute property of Her Majesty’s Government without any additional payment, with all patent rights belonging to the torpedo and its developments.”

Mr. Northcote, on 28th December 1886, sent the papers (unofficially) to Mr. Jackson, saying that Mr. Smith had suggested that he should ask Mr. Jackson to look at the memorandum drawn up to form the basis of agreement with Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, and to say if he thought any points of importance had been omitted.

Mr. Jackson replied, 29th December 1886, suggesting that the words in italics in Mr. Smith’s minute of 26th December 1886 should be struck out, as the department was entitled to become absolute owners of the torpedo, and all present and future improvements.

He observed also that there was one omission which appeared to him to be of vital importance – viz., the absence of Argent as a party to the agreement.  He remarked that the Inspector-General of Fortifications had stated that Argent was in possession of the secret; and that in the copy of Mr. Temperley’s notes, 14th December 1886, he stipulated that Argent was not to be a party to the agreement.  He continued. “not if three men are in possession of the secret, and you buy only two of them, the third is free to compel you to buy shim, or free to sell to others hereafter and it appears to me that unless you make your control to include all those who can impart the secret you may find yourself in the position of having to buy again, or you may find that you are neither sole possessors nor sole manufacturers.”

A sixth interview was held on 31st December 1886.

The Surveyor-General mentioned the point which had been raised as to Mr. Argent, and read that portion of Mr. Jackson’s note which related to it.

Mr. Brennan thought some separate agreement might be signed.  Mr. Temperley observed that Argent could not well be a party to the general agreement, as he was not a member of the company.

Mr. Brennan admitted that argent undoubtedly was in possession of such information as would enable an intelligent Engineer to obtain valuable possession of the secret.

It was elicited that Argent had no claim for a share of the reward, but that he would be liberally dealt with.

The discussion resolved itself into a demand on the part of the government, that Messrs. Brennan and Temperley should give bond for Argent in the amount of 10,000l.

They retired to consider the matter, and later on the same day, a seventh interview was held (present as at the sixth) at which Messrs. Brennan and Temperley signified their willingness to enter into a bond of 10,000l. as proposed, diminishing yearly by 2,000l. a year.

On the same day, 31st December 1886, Mr. Northcote wrote to Mr. Jackson discussing the matter, stating the result of the interview, and asking if the bond would palliate his objections.

In reply, Mr. Jackson, 4th January 1886, said that he had carefully considered the conditions of the proposed agreement, but was unable to come to any other conclusion than that stated in his letter of 29th December.  He had stated the case and handed the papers to the Solicitor, asking him to express his opinion as to what should be done.  Mr. Jackson enclosed, confidentially, Sir. A. K. Stephenson’s answer, which did not lessen his objection.  He felt that Mr. Northcote having been good enough to refer the papers to him, placed on him an additional responsibility, and that although it was not for him to decide whether the agreement, as proposed, should be entered into or not, it was his duty to point out that if Mr. Smith thought it necessary to make the agreement, he should do so with full recognition of the risk attaching to it.

In Sir. A. K. Stephenson’s memorandum, which was forwarded by Mr. Jackson, after discussing the exact state of the question, - Messrs. Brennan and Temperley’s objections to Argent being made a party to the agreement – and their probable reasons; he said that the bond which they offered seemed to him wholly inadequate, and that in his view the proper course would be for the War department to put the proposal clearly and distinctly to Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, as Mr. Jackson had put in his letter to Mr. Northcote, of three men being in possession of a secret, and ask them to come to terms with their servant, Argent, under which he would bind himself, as they were about to do, under the agreement, to keep the secret.  He thought that, however stringent the terms of the agreement might be made with Brennan and Temperley, some further attempt ought to be made to make terms as stringent with Argent, and that the Treasury would not be justified in assenting to the agreement with the absence of Argent without further attempt to getting him made a party to it.



Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2014, 16:46:26 »
A fifth interview was held on 16th December 1886.

The Surveyor-General stated that, having seen the Secretary of State, and explained to him the views of Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, as expressed at the last meeting, and having been authorized to refer again to the Treasury, he was able to notify their agreement to the compromise of 80,000l.

It was proposed that the Treasury Solicitor should meet Messrs. Brennan and Temperley’s legal representative at once for the purpose of extending the agreement of 13th February 1883, for a period of one month from 18th December 1886, to afford time for drawing up the necessary final agreement.

Mr. Brennan expressed himself as highly gratified that his invention should have been accepted by the British Government, and asked for a letter notifying the request for an extension of one month for the purpose stated.

A letter was accordingly addressed to Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, 17th December 1886, stating that it was essential that the solicitors on both sides should meet on that day in order to arrange for a further extension for one month of the option accorded by Clause 9 of the agreement of 13th February 1883 to the Secretary of State for the purchase and exclusive use of the torpedo, so as to afford time for drawing up a final agreement between themselves and the Government.

Articles of Agreement were accordingly drawn, and executed on 18th December 1886, by which the term was extended for one calendar month.

The Surveyor-General submitted the above mentioned agreement to the Secretary of state, 20th December 1886, and proposed to instruct the Treasury Solicitor to prepare a legal agreement on the following basis:-

“The torpedo, with all its developments, to become the exclusive property of Her Majesty’s Government, upon the following terms:-

“Payment to Messrs. Brennan and Temperley of a sum of 110,000l. by instalments, viz;)

“30,000l. within six months.

“Five annual payments of 16,000l.; the first payment to be made by the close of the financial year 1887-88, the second by the close of the financial year 1888-89, and so on.

“These payments to be made without any deduction for income tax.

“Messrs. Brennan and Temperley to enter the service of Her Majesty’s Government from 18th January 1887, for a period of not less than five years from April 1st 1887, at salaries of 1,500l. and 1,200l. respectively; and to undertake to devote their whole energies to the manufacture and development of the torpedo.

“These salaries to carry no claim to pension, lodging, or any other allowances.

“No account, however, to be taken of moneys already paid by the Government to Messrs. Brennan and Temperley.

“Messrs. Brennan and Temperley’s chief foreman, a man named Argent, to enter Government service for the same time as Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, at a salary equal to that of an assistant manager of factories – viz., 300l. a year, with annual increment of 10l. up to 400l.

“Any wilful betrayal, or gross culpable neglect, on the part of Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, by which the secret is made known, or refusal on their part faithfully to carry out the work necessary for the construction of the torpedo, to involve cancellation of the agreement, and to deprive Messrs. Brennan and Temperley of all claim against the Government, including the payment of the instalment for the year that may then be current, and the torpedo to remain the absolute property if Her Majesty’s Government.

“The torpedo under any circumstances to be the absolute property of Her Majesty’s Government at the end of five years, the 110,000l. having been paid, and Messrs. Brennan and Temperley to undertake not to communicate its secret to any Foreign or Colonial Government.

“Should Her Majesty’s Government think fit to discontinue the manufacture of the torpedo before the expiration of the five years, they shall have the right to do so, and to dispense with Messrs. Brennan and Temperley’s services on the payment of such sums as may be due up to date; the exclusive rights of future manufacture of the torpedo then to revert to Messrs. Brennan and Temperley.”

The Surveyor-General concluded-

“If you approve, I will ask the Treasury solicitor to draft a legal agreement on this basis, and to submit it to me.”

Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2014, 17:36:21 »
A second interview was held on 13th December 1886.
Messrs. Brennan and Temperley stated that the Government offer did not come up to their expectation, which was 110,000l. (including 40,000l. down) in five years, or the present value of 100,000l.  They also expected development of the torpedo for the Navy.

With regard to the proposed appointments, it was assumed by Messrs. Brennan and Temperley that they would be placed in the position of heads of departments, which was understood.  They asked for 2,000l. and 1,500l. a year respectively.  (They preferred fixed annual instalments to royalties).  They observed there would be no difficulty as to argent.

It was understood that the 30,000l. was to be free of income duty.

A record of this interview was sent to the Treasury, and on 14th December 1886, Mr. Ryder wrote to Mr. a’Beckett to the following effect:-

The Chancellor of the exchequer agrees to the payment of the 30,000l. within three months, if Mr. Smith finds it necessary.  He also concurs in salaries of 1,500l. and 1,200l. being offered to Mr. Brennan and Mr. Temperley respectively, to include house allowance, and all emoluments.  It is understood that these gentlemen will have no claim to pension, and that their salaries are fixed so high on this amongst other considerations.  The salaries are of course to be purely personal to Messrs. Brennan and Temperley.

A third interview with Messrs. Brennan and Temperley was held on 14th December 1886.

The Surveyor-General read Mr. Ryde’s note referred to above, as containing the final offer of the Government.  A discussion ensued, in which Messrs. Brennan and Temperley evinced a disinclination to accept less than 110,000l. and some dissatisfaction with the salaries proposed, and among other things they expressed a wish to reserve liberty to treat also with the Admiralty as to the use of the weapon by the Navy.  It was pointed out to them that the Government were dealing with them irrespective of departments.

Mr. Temperley handed in his notes of the first interview, but Mr. Northcote pointed out that in some respects they differed from the terms now offered for acceptance.

A fourth interview was held on 15th December 1886.

Messrs. Brennan and Temperley stated that they would make no difficulty as to accepting the salaries offered, or as to the 30,000l., subject to payment in six or three months, as the Government might decide, providing other points were agreed to.

But they pressed, in the interests of their company, and as making all the difference between satisfaction and dissatisfaction to their employers, the question of the additional 10,000l., which they considered a fair compromise between their original offer and the latest offer of the Government.

The Surveyor-General took this intimation as referendum, and said he would mention it to the Secretary of state.

Other points were agreed to, and the only open question was simply one of 80,000l. or 70,000l. (as offered by the Government), spread over five equal annual instalments, i.e., 16,000l. or 14,000l. per annum; and it was quite understood that the general agreement under treaty carried with it all improvements and developments which might be made in the torpedo.


Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2014, 14:25:22 »
Finally, the Committee resolved that immediate steps should be taken to secure, if possible, a short extension of the agreement expiring on 18th December 1886, so as to afford sufficient time to conclude the negotiations.

On 10th December 1886, Mr. Ryder (Treasury) notified to Mr. a.’Beckett (Private Secretary to the Surveyor-General) that he had authority from Mr. Jackson (Financial secretary to the Treasury)to say that the Chancellor of the Exchequer approved of negotiations being opened with Mr. Brennan in the basis recommended by the committee.  The Chancellor of the Exchequer did not wish to be committed to payment before 1st April 1887, and he reserved the option of paying by supplementary in 1886-87, or from the Votes of next year.  He also wished to record that he embarked in this large expenditure in the faith that the Secretary of state would regard it as in substitution for some other equivalent expenditure on armaments, not as a sheer addition to estimates.

After their fifth meeting (9th December 1886) the Committee, having recommended the purchase of the invention, practically ceased to exist, and the negotiations with Messrs. Brennan and Temperley were undertaken by the Surveyor-General of the Ordnance on behalf of the Government, with the knowledge and sanction of the Secretary of state and the Treasury.

An interview was held with Messrs. Brennan and Temperley at the war Office, 11th December 1886.

The Surveyor-General stated that he was authorized by the Secretary of state to make an offer to Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, which whilst it might be received as official, would of course be subject to proper legal settlement of details.  The offer was as follows:-

Government to pay 30,000l. within six months.
No account to be taken of any past payments.
Government undertake to pay a further sum of 70,000l. within five years from 1st April 1887, either by royalties or by instalments, subject to conditions as to earlier abandonment or disclosure.
Messrs. Brennan and Temperley to enter the service of the Government for a term of not less than five years, at a salary of 1,000l. a year each, and to undertake to give their whole service.
Argent to be employed on the same scale as an Assistant Manager, at 300l., rising by 10l. to 400l. a year.
The torpedo to be the property of the Government, of course with exclusive right of manufacture.
Extend present agreement for one month, to allow of completion of negotiation.

Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2014, 10:06:56 »
Treasury replied 4th December 1886:-

Treasury to war Office.

The Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty’s Treasury have had before them Mr. Knox’s letter of the 1st instant, stating that Mr. Secretary Smith invites them to nominate an Officer, on their behalf, to serve upon the Committee which is considering the question of the adoption of the Brennan torpedo into Her Majesty’s Service, and to assist them in arriving at a basis of negotiation with Mr. Brennan for the purchase of his invention.

My Lords direct me to state that they accede to the request of the Secretary of State upon condition that the basis of negotiation recommended by the Committee shall, if approved by Mr. Smith, be submitted to this department likewise for approval, before Her Majesty’s Government is committed to its adoption.

Assuming that Mr. Secretary Smith accepts the foregoing condition, my Lords nominate Mr. G. L. Ryder as their representative on the Committee.

On the same day the Treasury Solicitor forwarded the following reminder he had received from Mr. Malleson, dated 3rd December 1886, viz:-

Mr. Malleson to Treasury Solicitor.

Not hearing from you consequent of 18th October which I sent you, and you acknowledged, I beg to remind you the notice expires on the 18th of this month, and there is therefore very little time left for considering any arrangement that may be proposed.

The Committee held a fifth meeting on 9th December 1886.

A memorandum, drawn up by the Secretary, showing the state of the question at that time, and suggesting the points which required consideration, was read and considered.

After discussion and consideration of alternative schemes which presented themselves as bases for negotiations, the Committee, subject to the considerations mentioned below, decided in favour of the following, and recommended that steps should be taken by the Chairman to ascertain whether Messrs. Brennan and Temperley would be willing to enter into negotiations on that basis, viz:-

Pay 30,000l. down.
Agree to take no account, either of the 5,000l. paid in 1883, or of the salary of 1,000l. a year paid up to this date to Mr. Brennan.
Messrs. Brennan and Temperley to enter into the service of the Government, at salaries to be agreed upon, with royalties according to Major Sale’s scheme, or by equal annual instalments of the total amount to be paid under the next clause.
Government to guarantee a maximum payment, excluding salaries, of 100,000l. within five or seven years, subject to earlier abandonment, according to Major Sale’s scheme, 3; also with Major Sale’s conditions as to disclosure, and a further stipulation to be made that after such period of five or seven years, the Government should still retain exclusive property in the invention.

The conditions subject to which the Committee submitted their recommendation, were:-

1.   Director of Naval Ordnance agreed as to the importance of retaining Mr. Brennan’s services, but would not pay what he considered would be the exorbitant sum involved (as compared with the price paid for the Whitehead torpedo) to secure the secret and exclusive right of the Brennan torpedo.
2.   The Treasury members recorded his opinion that the salaries to be agreed upon should be limited to say, 2,000l. a year, which should cover, not only Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, but also the remuneration to be paid to Argent.

Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2014, 15:44:58 »
Admiralty replied to the letter of 27th October on 11th November:-

Admiralty to War Office.

I am commanded by my Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty to acquaint you, for the information of the Secretary of State for War, with reference to your letter of the 27th ultimo, in regards to the Brennan torpedo, that my Lords are of opinion that, although this weapon would doubtless prove of very considerable value as a means of protection for mouths of harbours, coaling stations, &c., and, consequently, a very desirable invention for the Land Service, they do not consider it to be suitable for the Naval Service, and, therefore, must decline to expend money from Naval Votes in combination with War Office in its purchase; but they are quite willing to join the Secretary of State for War in a statement to the Treasury, to the effect that it is, in their opinion, desirable to purchase the invention as a valuable weapon for the protection of harbours, coaling stations, &c.; but, with regard to the question of purchasing the secret, and the sole right of its manufacture and use, my Lords fear that, in the present state of mechanical science, and invention which is considered to be of great value by other Powers would not remain a secret for any length of time, and, consequently, the advisability of purchasing this right, at a very high price, is, in their opinion, questionable.



On 1st December the following letter was written to the Treasury, by order of the Secretary of State:-

War Office to Treasury.

I am directed by Mr. Secretary Smith to transmit to you, for the early consideration of the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty’s Treasury, the following confidential prints and papers relating to the Brennan torpedo, viz:-

1.   Precis, with correspondence, 1882-86, relating to Mr. Brennan’s employment, and containing the agreements of 13th February 1883 and 18th March 1886.
2.   Print No. 2 (secret), containing minute by the Inspector-General of Fortifications, submitting results of trial.
3.   Print No. 3 (secret), * submitting provisional proposals as to the terms upon which the invention may be purchased.
4.   War Office letter to the Admiralty, 27th October 1886, and Admiralty reply 11th November, 1886, as to the importance or otherwise of acquiring the sole rights of manufacture.
I am to state, for their Lordships’ information, that a special Committee organized as proposed on page 9 of Print No. 1, has been engaged in considering the question as to adopting the Brennan torpedo into Her Majesty’s Service, and, although they have as yet made no formal report or submission, the Committee have recorded their unanimous opinion that the value and importance of the invention is such as to warrant them in recommending its purchase for the use of the British Government.

Their Lordships will see from the papers that a very considerable sum of money is involved in this matter, and it is also of the most pressing necessity to come to a speedy decision, looking to the fact that Mr. Brennan has, be letter dated the 18th October 1886, given formal notice, in accordance with the agreement dated 13th February 1883, that his torpedo is complete and fir for trial, and the government are, therefore, called upon to declare their intentions in regard to purchase within two months from that date.

Mr. Brennan having so far fulfilled his engagement, the trials of his torpedo have been made with successful results, and the Committee having resolved as above stated, Mr. Smith has come to the conclusion that it is now necessary to treat with Mr. Brennan.

As, however, it would seem to be essential that any agreement in treating should be final and binding upon the Government, subject to all necessary legal questions being adequately adjusted, I am directed by Mr. Smith to invite the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty’s Treasury to nominate an Officer, on their behalf, to serve upon and assist the Committee, for the purpose of recommending a basis for negotiating in this very important matter.


Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2014, 14:36:34 »
There are loads yet to come!  I will add more as and when I have time :)

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2014, 13:45:42 »
Ekky thump!! Kyn  - to avoid a more expletive deleted comment! that sort of research is unbelievable - that lot was fascinating reading and well bl**dy done.
Life's different upside down

Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2014, 11:35:20 »
C.

The terms put forward by Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, as agents for the Brennan Torpedo Company, for the exclusive use of their torpedo by the English Government, are-

1.   The payment of a lump sum of 40,000l.
2.   That royalties be granted to them, being-
100l. per torpedo for the first 200 torpedoes.
50l. per torpedo for the next 200 torpedoes.
25l. per torpedo for any future torpedoes, within 14 years.

3.   That if at the end of five years the Brennan torpedo is an established and working success, a further sum of 40,000l. be paid to Messrs Brennan and Temperley.
Should the secret, through any shortcomings on the part of the aforesaid gentlemen, be disclosed, then the sum of 40,000l. shall not be paid, nor shall any further royalties be paid by Government.
If during the term of five years the Government shall see fit to abandon the manufacture of use of the Brennan torpedo, then, in lieu of the payment of 40,000l., the following payments shall be made:-
If abandoned at the end of the first year 8,000l.
If abandoned at the end of the second year 16,000l.
If abandoned at the end of the third year 24,000l.
If abandoned at the end of the fourth year 32,000l.

4.   If the royalties under clause 2 exceed within five years the sun of 20,000l., then the sum of 40,000l., mentioned in the preceding paragraph, shall suffer an abatement to the amount of the excess.

5.   If during the aforesaid term of five years the Government abandon the further use of the torpedo, then Messrs. Brennan and Temperley shall be at liberty to sell their invention to other Governments, on the condition that they abandon their claim to the payment set forth in Clause 3.

Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #50 on: December 04, 2013, 19:00:29 »
A.

Memorandum showing the degree in which the mechanism of the Brennan Fish Torpedo is known to various persons.

1.   A torpedo which involved the principle of propulsion by unwinding two drums and steering by the differential strain or tension on the two wires, has been patented, and the specification is accessible to the public.

2.   As regards the torpedo brought home by Mr. Brennan in 1881, from Australia, which differs entirely in all its internal arrangements from those set forth in the specification of the above-mentioned patent, the following  persons are acquainted with all the details of the mechanism:-  Messrs. Brennan, Temperley, and Calvert, Professor Kernot, Messrs. Miller, Argent, in addition to certain Admiralty and War Office Officials; and furthermore, several persons had opportunities of a more or less complete inspection of the internal mechanism of the torpedo.

3.   Since the date of the arrival of the torpedo in England, and before its trials by the Royal Engineer Committee in 1881, improvements were made in its internal mechanism, more especially as regards steering and depth apparatus.  With these improvements the following persons are acquainted in full detail:-  Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, Argent, and a lad named Charles Mead.  It is possible that a partial knowledge of the interior mechanism, but not of the aforesaid improvements was acquired by Corporal Henwood, R.E.

4.   Since the date of the trials by the Royal Engineer Committee in 1881, an entirely new weapon has been constructed, which includes many improvements in detail, and is furnished with an entirely novel depth mechanism.  It is to this depth mechanism that the inventor attributes the possibility of successfully using the torpedo.  With these improvements the following persons only are acquainted:-  Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, Argent, lad named Charles Mead, in addition of three Officers, Royal Engineers.
Furthermore, several persons, namely:-  William Munro, John Oliver, David Todd, John Hart Browning, being the workmen employed in making certain parts of the torpedo and in its manipulation, have a partial acquaintance with certain parts of its mechanism other than its depth mechanism.

5.   Messrs. Brennan and Temperley state that such precautions were taken by them as to prevent the possibility of surreptitious access to the torpedo, or the acquirement by any unauthorised person of a knowledge of its secret parts.

B.

In order to facilitate secrecy, the inventor proposes to enclose the whole of the secret portion of the steering and depth mechanism in a single closed metallic case of drum, which need not be larger than 18 inches long by 9 inches diameter, and which need never be opened at out-stations, nor could be so opened without actual violence.

I have, after careful inspection of the parts, satisfied myself that this could be done, and that the case so prepared could be kept in store for years without impairing the efficiency of the enclosed apparatus.

M. T. Sale, Major, R.E.

25th October 1886.

Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #49 on: November 28, 2013, 15:42:00 »
The Committee also discussed a memorandum which had been prepared by the Secretary, and the resolved as follows:-

1.   That the Committee are unanimously of opinion that the value and Importance of this invention is such as to warrant them in recommending its purchase for the exclusive use of the British Government.

2.   That a Sub-Committee should be appointed to endeavour to come to terms with Mr. Brennan and Mr. Temperley on a basis not to exceed the following, viz.:-

40,000l. down.
20,000l. royalty in five years.
20,000l. after five years, in four annual instalments.

With the grant of commissions in the Royal Engineers as Supernumerary Captains and advancement in due course of Regulation.

Treasury Solicitor to be communicated with, who should draw up necessary conditions, including pledges to secrecy, services to develope, non-divulgence, &c.

3.   That the Committee should submit provisional scheme of adoption as drawn up by the Inspector-General of Fortifications, observing that the amount to be taken next year will depend on consideration with the estimates.

4.   That in the event of the Secretary of State giving his approval to negations as proposed, the Sub-Committee should consist of the Surveyor-General (the Chairman), with the assistance of Colonel Armstrong, a Treasury Legal Officer, and the Secretary.



Report by Major Sale, R.E., with accompanying memoranda, considered by Committee, 2nd November 1886.

Inspector-General of Fortifications,

In compliance with your instructions I have conferred with Messrs. Brennan and Temperley and attach three memoranda, of which:-

The first marked A, sets forth precisely, on information furnished by Messrs. Brennan and Temperley, the degree to which the internal mechanism of the torpedo is known to various persons.

The second, marked B, refers to the mechanical arrangements proposed for keeping secret certain essential parts – viz., the steering and depth mechanism.

The third, marked C, sets forth the terms now put forward by Messrs. Brennan and Temperley for the purchase of their invention.

In connection with these memoranda, I venture to make the following remarks:-

As regards the value of the secret.  This lies not only in the steering and depth mechanism, but also in the numerous clever devices which have been invented to meet the many difficulties which arose when working out the details.

Whatever the value of the secret may have been in 1881 that value has been very greatly increased by the improvements added since that date.

Steering arrangements could, no doubt, be devised by any clever mechanist acquainted with the torpedo in principle, but would be most difficult, if not impossible, to meet the many small practical difficulties which are met with in working out this principle, without prolonged trial and experiment.
The value of the depth mechanisms, in my opinion, very great, it is a wholly novel and strikingly ingenious apparatus for meeting conditions far more complex than are met by the corresponding apparatus in the Whitehead torpedo.

I do not think that this mechanism, or anything equal to it in efficiency, is likely to be hit upon (except after prolonged study) by any person, however able a mechanist he be.  Moreover, its action is so very peculiar that it would require a prolonged inspection, whilst at work, by a skilful mechanical engineer to comprehend its action, and would be quite beyond the comprehension of a working artisan.

Upon the whole, it appears to me that the purchase of the invention would secure a start of four of five years over any other country in the use of this class of weapon.

As regards to Mr. Brennan’s financial position:- in the course of his early efforts to bring out his invention he had to raise the money by parting with a very considerable proportion of any purchase money to be received.  He is pledged to a small company, or syndicate, in Australia, and has also to provide for the share of Messrs. Temperley and Calvert, so that the sum asked from Government though large, will not in reality furnish any very great amount to the inventor.

M.T. Sale, Major, R.E.

25th October 1886.

Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #48 on: November 12, 2013, 10:00:29 »
In the meantime, under date of 18th October, the following notice was received from Mr. Brennan through Mr. Malleson:-

Mr. Brennan to Secretary of State.

I have the honour to give notice, in accordance with the provisions of the agreement made the 13th day of February 1883, between myself and John Ridley Temperley of the first part, myself on my own behalf of the second part, William Calvert of the third part, and Her Majesty’s Principal Secretary of State for the War Department of the fourth part, and an extension thereof made the 18th day of March 1886 between the same parties, that the Improved Brennan Fish Torpedo is complete and fit for trial.

On 26th October, at their third meeting, the Committee witnessed a trial at Sheerness, all members being present, including Captain Fisher, R.N., who was about to succeed Admiral Hopkins as Director of Naval Ordnance.

On the 27th, letter was written to the Admiralty as follows:-

War Office to admiralty.

Referring to previous correspondence that has passed between the admiralty and this department in regard to the Brennan torpedo, I am directed by Mr. Secretary Smith to acquaint you, for the information of the Lords Commissioners of the admiralty, that the time has arrived for deciding whether this weapon, which is now reported as efficient, is to be adopted for use in Her Majesty’s Service.

Their Lordships are aware that a Committee is sitting for the purpose of assessing the value of this torpedo, and the inclosed confidential print will place them in possession of the recent results attained and the latest proposals submitted by the Inspector-General of Fortifications in regard to the application of the invention, supposing the terms of purchase to be satisfactorily arranged.

Mr. Smith feels it to be a matter of urgent importance that he should know whether the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty are prepared to join with him in proposing terms to the Treasury for the exclusive use of the Brennan torpedo for the Service of this country, or whether their Lordships still remain of the opinion that it is not likely to be required for naval use.

Their Lordships are aware that the trial which took place yesterday at Sheerness was attended by the present and future Director of Naval Ordnance, and it is really a most important consideration in determining the purchase or otherwise of Mr. Brennan’s invention, to known whether, in the event of their Lordships still adhering in a general sense to the views already expressed, they would further consider that the possession of this weapon by foreign countries would or would not be a matter of sufficiently serious concern for Her Majesty’s Navy as to render if desirable to make such pecuniary sacrifice as may be necessary in order to retain the weapon in the exclusive possession of this country.

The next meeting of the Committee will be held at this office on Tuesday next, 2nd November, at noon, and I am to express Mr. Smith’s hope that the naval representatives will be in a position at that meeting to give expression to their Lordships’ views on this very important question which presses for early solution.

The Committee held their fourth meeting on 2nd November.  All members present, with the Secretary, Lieut.-Colonel Armstrong and Major Sale also attended.  Captain Fisher, the new Director f Naval Ordnance, was unable to attend, by Rear-Admiral Hopkins was present as before.  They considered a report by Major Sale dated 25th October 1886, with accompanying memoranda (see page 14), submitted in pursuance of the reference to him decided upon at the third meeting.

Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2013, 15:08:44 »
The Treasury replied, 20th January 1886, as follows:-

Treasury to War Office

The Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty’s Treasury have had before them your letter of the 13th instant, proposing a prolongation of the agreement between the War Department and the Brennan Torpedo Company and Mr. Louis Brennan, dated 13th February 1883, which will expire on the 13th proximo, ad I am to state, for the information of Mr. Secretary Smith, that in deference to his recommendation, my Lords consent to the prolongation of this agreement for a period not exceeding one year, and to the consequent continuance of an equal period of Mr. Louis Brennan’s salary of 1,000l. per annum from Army Votes.

My Lords much regret, however, that this prolongation should be necessary; and they think it would be only equitable, in event of the ultimate purchase of the invention and exclusive use of the Brennan Fish Torpedo by the War department, that the salary of Mr. Brennan should be abated from the price.

A Supplementary Agreement was accordingly executed 18th March 1886.  By this it was provided that the Agreement of 13th February 1883 should be extended so as to comprise the term of four years from the letter date.

(The Agreement in full is appended to this paper.  Appendix II., page 34.)



In June 1886, steps were taken towards assembling the Committee, the Admiralty having, on 22nd June 1886, stated they had no objection to the Director of Naval Ordnance serving on it, observing, however, that it had not been considered that this weapon was of value for Naval purposes in connection with the fleet.

The Committee held meetings on 16th July and 16th October, on which latter date they considered a minute of the Inspector-General of Fortifications with reports of Sub-Committee on the results of trials of the Brennan torpedo.*

The Committee also considered the question as to the terms on which the torpedo could be purchased, supposing its adoption into the Service was decided upon, and it being further resolved to secure, as far as possible, exclusive rights to the British Government.

They resolved that the question of maintaining secrecy, supposing the invention is purchased, being of crucial importance, it should be thoroughly investigated, and they decided upon authorizing Major Sale, R.E., to confer with Mr. Brennan on this point.

They decided also that Major Sale should invite Mr Brennan to state his own views as to what reward or remuneration would be adequate, in the event of adoption by the British Government for its own exclusive use.  Major Sale to take for his guide in making his enquiries the questions that were summarized for the Committee of 1882 (see page 5), viz. :-

1.   Is there really a valuable secret?
2.   If purchased for the exclusive use of the British Government, can the secret be fairly maintained?
3.   Can the Government ensure its being known only to themselves and the inventor?
4.   And, supposing these questions to be answered affirmatively, what is the secret worth; in other words, what terms would Mr. Brennan be disposed to ask?

It was decided to send a minute to the Inspector-General of Fortifications, requesting him to instruct Major Sale as above.

*This was printed as a separate document, “Print No. 2, secret.”

Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #46 on: November 08, 2013, 11:21:36 »
WAR OFFICE TO TREASURY.

Referring to the correspondence which passed between this department and the Treasury, and particularly to your letters of the 25th January 1883, No. 1458, and 2nd February 1883, No. 2340, respecting the Agreement with Messrs. Brennan and Temperley for the working out of the Brennan torpedo.

I am now directed by Mr. Secretary Smith to acquaint you, for the information of the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty’s Treasury, that satisfactory progress has been made in the development of this invention, but that it is quite impossible to come to a final conclusion as to its adoption or otherwise into the public service by the 13th proximo. On which date the Agreement of 1883 will terminate.

It is proposed very shortly to appoint a Special Committee to consider all the circumstances, and the result would in due course be communicated for their Lordships’ consideration.

In the meantime, there seem no alternative but to continue the Agreement for another year, which involves the payment of another year’s salary (1,000l.) to Mr. Brennan for his further services, which are indispensable.

The Solicitor has been consulted, and a Draft Agreement prepared for extending the existing one to 13th February 1887.

I am, therefore, to request the favour of an early notification of their Lordships’ concurrence, so that the extension proposed, to which Mr. Brennan is willing to agree, may be settled forthwith, and the necessary provision of 1,000l. included, as before, in the Army Estimates, 1886-87, Vote 15 (Sub-head c).

Offline kyn

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Re: Brennan Torpedo
« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2013, 21:15:42 »
Minute by Secretary of State (Lord Hartington), 30th January 1883.

Considering all the circumstances of the case and the delay which has already occurred, I think it is unnecessary to refer the Draft agreement for the opinion of the Law Officers.

As to (1) and (2), I agree with Lord Morley that Mr. Brennan has sufficient interest in bringing the work to a successful conclusion, and it appears to have been decided on sufficient grounds that it is better not at present to attempt to fix the terms for ultimate purchase.

The following letter was addressed to the Treasury, 1st February 1883:-

War Office to Treasury.

I am directed by the Marquis of Hartington to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 25th ultimo, No. 1458, relative to the proposed Agreement between this department and the Brennan Torpedo Company and others, and giving expression to the difficulty felt by the Lords Commissioners of Her Majesty’s Treasury in regard to this matter.

In reply I am to acquaint you, for the information of their Lordships, that the subject has received the most careful consideration in this department, from every point of view, and the Marquis of Hartington is not only prepared to take the responsibility of completing the Agreement as now arranged and settled in communication with Treasury Solicitor; but looking to the length of time that has elapsed since the negociations commenced, and to the interest which Mr. Brennan will himself have in bringing the work he is engaged upon to a successful issue, he is prepared to recommend that the proposed reference to the Law Officers of the Crown should be dispensed with.

Under all circumstances, therefore, Lord Hartington would be glad to receive the assent of the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury to the Agreement being completed and carried out forthwith.

The payment of 5,000l. will be a charge upon Vote 15 (Sub-head c), and the excess, if any, upon that Vote will be met by a saving on Vote 12.

The salary, which will take effect from the date upon which the Agreement is signed, will also be charged to Vote 15, and be provided in due course in the Estimates for next year.

The Treasury, on 2nd February 1883, notified their sanction to the completion of the Agreement as proposed, and the matter was duly proceeded with.

On 14th December 1885, the Inspector-General of Fortifications minuted to Director of Artillery as follows:-

The Royal Engineer Committee, 27th April 1885, report that the torpedo is at present a formidable weapon, and have reported, 9th October 1885, that they consider that they are already in possession of sufficient information as to the value of the torpedo when running on the surface.

Mr. Brennan is at present endeavouring to perfect the depth mechanism of his torpedo.

A further report of the progress made is directed to be furnished on the 1st January 1886.

I would propose that a Committee, composed as follows:-

Surveyor-General of Ordnance,
Director of artillery,
Inspector-General of Fortifications,
Director of Naval Ordnance,
Chemist to the War department,
Mr. Engelbach, C.B., Secretary,

be appointed about the beginning of February 1886, to assess the value of the torpedo in the state of efficiency it shall have arrived at by that time.

The Committee could be assisted in their judgement by –

(a.)   Witnessing actual trials of the torpedo.
(b.)   Reports of the Royal Engineer Committee of the trials which have taken place in the presence of some of their members, and also by their recommendation or otherwise.
(c.)   Improvements suggested by Mr. Brennan and explanation of the methods in which he thinks the torpedo could be applied.
(d.)   Remarks by Inspector-General of Fortifications on the Royal Engineer Committee reports when received, and upon the positions when the torpedo could with advantage be employed, and also upon the designs for the improvement and use of the torpedo suggested by Mr. Brennan.
(e.)   Agreement made by the British Government with Mr. Whitehead in 1868, for the purchase of right to manufacture Whitehead torpedoes.
(f.)   Original proposals made by Mr. Brennan for the purchase of his torpedo and any subsequent ones he may have to make.
(g.)   The following memorandum detailing the principles in which it is desirable to conduct the purchase of the torpedo.

Memorandum

The trials of this torpedo, which have already been carried out, show that it possesses in some important points considerable advantages over any form yet brought forward.  Its exact value can only be estimated when the trials are concluded, but in any case it appears very evident that its maximum capabilities are yet far from being attained, and that it will require much study and a long period before the result is arrived at, as in the case of the Whitehead torpedo, to which continual improvements are being made, although it has been an efficient weapon ever since it was first purchased.

In order that the development should be proceeded with as quickly as possible, it is thought that it will be necessary for the inventor to conduct the manufacture, and therefore that one of the terms of the Agreement should be the retention of Mr. Brennan’s services as superintendent of the manufacture of all these torpedoes.

I also think that inducements should be offered him to perfect the manufacture of the torpedo.  This could be done in one way by giving him a royalty on every torpedo manufactured, as the number to a large extent would depend upon the efficiency of the weapon.

An agreement of the nature described would ensure the Government getting good value for the money spent, as the expenditure would be proportioned to the numbers of the torpedoes actually constructed for use, and this form of payment would constitute part of the purchase money.

The terms I would therefore suggest for consideration would be as follows –

1.   The payment of a certain sum in cash if the torpedo be adopted into the Service.
2.   The appointment for a certain period of Mr. Brennan as superintendent of the manufacture of torpedoes at a certain salary.
3.   The payment of a royalty in each torpedo manufactured for a certain number of years.

The above conditions are on the assumption that it would be desirable to purchase the exclusive right to the torpedo, but if the Committee hold the opposite view, it would, I think, be most desirable that an agreement be made by which Mr. Brennan assents to establish his manufactory in England.

If you concur generally, will you pass with your observations for the final orders of the Surveyor-General.

Director of Artillery concurred generally, but considered the time an inconvenient one for assembling the proposed Committee, and suggested that it should be deferred for a short period, and that meantime an arrangement should be made for continuing Mr. Brennan’s employment for six months or a year.

Inspector-General of Fortifications preferred a year for the period of extension, and after reference to the Solicitor, the following letter was addressed to the Treasury, 13th January 1886:-

 

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