[peterchall]

Google ‘Boy Scouts in World War 2’ and 'Girl Guides in World War 2’ and there’s lots of information.

This one is particularly pertinent because one of the persons concerned was a guide in Maidstone:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-11005064

[Ron Stilwell]

Doing a little research on the defence of East Kent in WW2, I was interviewing a man who was in the Scouts in Broadstairs, Thanet, in 1939.  He told me that the Broadstairs Scout Group were engaged in filling sand-bags down on the beach at Broadstairs and using a block and tackle to get them up to a lorry on the cliff-top. 
I wonder how many other groups of this type, sea-scouts, boys brigade, etc, volunteered in a similar way.

Just re-posting this query in case anyone knows anything about youth groups volunteering in WW2.
I know they filled sand-bags, dug trenches and built Anderson Shelters, but who, what and when.....?

[Signals99]

As I mentioned in a prior post we played the game in Union Street. We named it "can you cross the
water Mr Crock ?" Basically a version of "British Bulldog" only we all played, girls as well.
Those girls used to get really rough, so I stopped playing ??

[petermilly]

That's right I remember now, in our lot the runners had to be lifted off the ground and that was when you could get around them to the other side. Great game.

[peterchall]

Some net surfing on British Bulldog has revealed some interesting facts:

While it appears to have been claimed by the scouts, it was played throughout the white British Commonwealth, and was/is played in other countries – in Germany it is called “Who’s afraid of the Bogeyman?”

The number of initial bulldogs is decided by the players and depends on their number and the size of the playing area. A runner is considered caught if grabbed for long enough for the bulldog to call “British Bulldog, one, two, three” (I now remember that) – some sources state that the runner must be lifted off the ground for that time. Any runners who have not left the start area when the first one reaches ‘Home’ is considered caught anyway.

In this video the runners seem to be identified by carrying a yellow cloth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvaHhqsWr5w

The website ‘Boy Scout Trail’ advises leaders:
“This Game is meant for Boy Scouts. It gets VERY physical. You may want to take your larger scouts aside before the game and advise them about handling smaller scouts”.

Which leads on to how far it is permitted, if I have interpreted correctly:
1.   Objections to the game initially came from parents, concerning minor injuries and torn clothing.
2.   There is no official ban in the UK, but it was increasingly banned in schools following a critical report in the British Medical Journal in June 1985, mentioning the number of serious injuries resulting from the game.
3.   Then, to encourage more physical activity by children, the Local Government Association advised Education Authorities, in September 2008, to encourage the game, among others.
4.   After a surge, it seems to be in decline again – in a survey in April 2011, 29% of teachers questioned said that the game had been banned in their schools.

Are there any KHF members who are currently scout leaders, or who have children in the scouts, who can tell us the stuation today?

[JohnWalker]

Just found this PDF file link on Scouting Campfire Songs.  I didn't know there were so many.  Should bring some more memories back.  Ging Gang Gooli ...........

http://www.oldmeldrum-scouts.org.uk/scouting/images/resources/campfire_songs.pdf

JW

[ETA]

I too was in the Scouts, (2nd Gillingham). We played a similar game called 'murder ball', which was like rugby but played with a medicine ball.  No holds barred, of course.  I expect this too has been banned as there were elements of fun, danger and physical exertion involved.

[Apollo]

British bulldog was not played when I was in Cubs, but was a weekly occurrence at Ju jitsu. We were expected to put into practice what we had learnt; grapples, blocks, and break-falls. Great fun, when you weren't the one being thrown onto the mat by a kid twice your size, of course.

[Signals99]

Thanks for that Peterchall, the rules of "British Bulldog" , from one who has obviously partaken in the sport (or was it  a blood sport).
Had its compensations though, we settled a few old scores in the general melee, a battle royal of magnificent proportions, anything went, blows were traded, reputations as hard men built. Plus some lost.
Oh for those days again, not having to put up with the sarcasm that passes for conversation by some among us, just half an hour of good old "British Bulldog " in our wheelchairs, but no zimmer frames. They really hurt 

[peterchall]

To be clear, the ‘runners’ who were caught didn’t take over from the bulldogs, as in a game of playground ‘chase’, but were added to them. So eventually there were many bulldogs and only a few runners – the winner being the last runner left ‘alive’. Probably at its most brutal when about evenly divided between bulldogs and runners. But I can’t remember how bulldogs and runners were distinguished, so I hope that’s right.

To be fair to ‘Elf and Safety’ officials, it wouldn’t be within their remit – if it has been banned it will have been by the scout movement itself, or insurance companies refusing to cover it, and then blaming a non-existent H&S Regulation.

[JohnWalker]

That's how I remember it too - good excuse for the bully element to come into their own.  Good training for bouncers!

[Signals99]

A word of explanation re British Bulldog:- a couple of boys (preferably large and rough) stood in the centre of the hall. All other participants went to one end of the hall, the lads in the middle being the "British Bulldogs". At a signal from the scout master/local sadist it was the task of the non bulldogs to rush to the other end of the hall; this is when it got interesting, and the task of the bulldogs to catch them. On being caught they became bulldogs.
The best description is verbal and physical mayhem. Needless to say the 'elf & safety persons have banned it. Fair description Peterchall ??   

[peterchall]

I’m pretty sure that was the place for me as well.

As I said, it was during the war, definitely after the blitz of 1940/41, and I only remember going there during dark nights – with Double BST, sunset in mid-summer was not until well after 10pm, and there was plenty for we street yobs to do then anyway. So it was probably the winter of 1941/42, 1942/43, or 1943/44, when I would have been 12 to 14.  By the winter of 1944/45 I was working and probably ‘too adult’ – in my opinion – for scouting.

As far as I recall, there was only one scout leader, a chap in his 40’s or 50’s. Most men of scout leader age and disposition would have been in the forces, and those that weren’t were either working 60+ hour weeks or were not very physically fit. But it must have been something of an achievement to get a scout troop up and running in those circumstances.

So I'm afraid scouting never really caught on with me, and British Bulldog wasn’t a game for the faint hearted!

[Signals99]

PrB, Mike S, thanks for that! Yep, that was the place, I joined the cubs prior to becoming a sea cadet at Paisley Road, Gillingham. I think maybe more in The illustrious Peterchalls time than yours.
Peterchall, did you attend the jamboree on Jacksons Rec. just after the war ended ?

[Mike S]

St Andrews corner of Rose Street & Cossack Street may be.

I am pretty sure that you are referring to the meeting place of 44th Medway West scouts. Scoutmaster in 1956 was a man by the name of Salter, assisted by a very large chap named Bill Rapley. There was a song we used to sing, "We're The Delce Road Boys", anyone know the full version? I can only remember a small amount of it.