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Author Topic: Deal Castle  (Read 14704 times)

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Offline kyn

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2016, 23:36:08 »















Offline cliveh

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2012, 16:19:34 »
Aerial view 1927:


cliveh

Offline davpott

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2012, 21:59:21 »
There was mention of Camber Castle, this is near Rye or it was last time I saw it.  Now we have Chamber Castle, I do not know where this one is.

Sorry as I posted at the time I was in a rush. I meant Camber castle.

I have seen the boundry plate on Deal Castle and was told about Walmer Castle and Sandown Castle.  This came from a DOE worker, later to become English Heritage.  Remember the Castles were built by Henry VIII, 1560's.  I could mention other things I learnt about the castles from this gentleman, very interesting but I will keep them to myself, that way there are no disputes.

I don't doubt the plates at Deal castle, nor what you were told nor the sincerity of the person who told you. But I suspect they were probably only passing on in good faith what they had been told or picked up from local folk lore.

My argument is that the facts from maps that are easily available is that it is an unlikely theory. Parish boundaries were literally ‘set in stone’ in many cases or at least by an ancient pollard tree, road or hedge from their formation, which in most cases date prior to the Norman invasion. They then didn’t alter until the huge population changes the Victorians faced about 1850s. A study of the tithe maps which date 1830ish (depending on parish), but before the simplifying of some parishes carried out around 1860 will prove the point either way.
 
I am not disputing, just questioning…..that is what a good historian does. He may well be proved right in this case.  Notwithstanding my doubt on this ‘story’ please post more as I sure there is much which you were told where the man was a true expert.   :)
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Offline davpott

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2012, 21:15:43 »
I thought that Camber Castle was between Rye and Winchelsea. Probably wrong as normal. You can see it from the road, A249, in either direction.

S4.

That's the Camber castle I cited. I'm sorry it is just over the border and in Sussex  :) I just used it as an example in an
 attempt to demonstrate my argument that Henry VIII’s engineers sited the castles for strategic reasons rather than to save paying local taxes.

Offline Sentinel S4

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2012, 17:45:11 »
I thought that Camber Castle was between Rye and Winchelsea. Probably wrong as normal. You can see it from the road, A249, in either direction.

S4.
A day without learning something is a day lost and my brain is hungry. Feed me please.

Offline JohnG

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2012, 15:51:59 »
There was mention of Camber Castle, this is near Rye or it was last time I saw it.  Now we have Chamber Castle, I do not know where this one is.

Offline JohnG

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2012, 15:47:54 »
I have seen the boundry plate on Deal Castle and was told about Walmer Castle and Sandown Castle.  This came from a DOE worker, later to become English Heritage.  Remember the Castles were built by Henry VIII, 1560's.  I could mention other things I learnt about the castles from this gentleman, very interesting but I will keep them to myself, that way there are no disputes.

Offline davpott

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2012, 15:26:54 »
I've got the 1816 OS but it hasn't got boundaries maked on it. The earliest I can find on line is 1872 (for some reason I can still get into edina map site). The maps that need consulting are the tithe maps which local libraries should hold both digital and hard copies of.

Looking at the early maps I doubt if the boundary was changed when they messed around with some parishes about the 1860s. It clearly follows a road and beyond that a hedge line. If the line is projected on through the castle it would have hit the old MHWL at about the point where it now makes a dog leg towards the sea.

None of the other castles including Chamber are anywhere near a parish boundary.

One final thought as I am in a rush. These Castles belong to the crown so they wouldn't have been liable to local rates. 

Offline JohnG

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2012, 15:09:14 »
Davpot.  What date maps were you looking at?  You should have looked at Sandown Castle.  Deal Castle on the boundry of Walmer and Deal.  Sandown Castle on the boundry of Shoulden and Deal and Walmer Castle on the boundry of Deal and Kingsdown.  I am happy to be corrected by the experts.

Offline davpott

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2012, 14:54:01 »
I always thought Camber Castle was near Rye.  Maybe the boundries has moved over the years.  You can just see the end of the footbridge in the old postcacd a few post earlier, it is on the righthand edge.

You're right, I was just using it as was built at the same time as the other castles and easy to locate on old maps.

Offline JohnG

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2012, 12:22:03 »
I always thought Camber Castle was near Rye.  Maybe the boundries has moved over the years.  You can just see the end of the footbridge in the old postcard a few post earlier, it is on the righthand edge.

Dadredge

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2012, 08:48:16 »
Isn't it possible the parish boundaries were established after the castles were built? Especially as the Walmer NE boundary is a un-naturally tight triangle with the castle at one point.

Offline davpott

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2012, 00:00:07 »
I visited Deal Castle many years ago with one of the old DOE workmen. Up on the roof we looked at a brass plate which had a line marked across it with Walmer on one side and Deal on the other, the parish boundry went through the middle of the castle.  It turns out that all three castles were built on the parish boundries.  By doing this they avoided paying all the local taxes.  On the Walmer side of Deal Castle there used to be a foot bridge across the moat to the castle, you can see it in some of the old postcards.  The reason for this bridge was coal with its tax was cheaper to buy in Walmer than Deal, by using the bridge the coal did not enter Deal.
I was supprised to read a few years ago, in the local paper, that they had just discovered the bell in the cupola, I saw it years ago, it was not secrete.

Looking the Old Maps website the Deal castle story has some truth as most of it lies on the Walmer side of the boundary but Walmer castle is entirely in Walmer, likewise Camber castle is not built on a boundary. While its a nice story I doubt if Henry VIII's engineers worried too much about local taxes ( or assessments as they were known) when they sited the new defences.  Also as the local assessments were based on land value I doubt, if they paid at all, they would be valued at very much.

Offline JohnG

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2012, 22:03:31 »
I visited Deal Castle many years ago with one of the old DOE workmen. Up on the roof we looked at a brass plate which had a line marked across it with Walmer on one side and Deal on the other, the parish boundry went through the middle of the castle.  It turns out that all three castles were built on the parish boundries.  By doing this they avoided paying all the local taxes.  On the Walmer side of Deal Castle there used to be a foot bridge across the moat to the castle, you can see it in some of the old postcards.  The reason for this bridge was coal with its tax was cheaper to buy in Walmer than Deal, by using the bridge the coal did not enter Deal.
I was supprised to read a few years ago, in the local paper, that they had just discovered the bell in the cupola, I saw it years ago, it was not secrete.

Offline cliveh

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Re: Deal Castle
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 15:52:41 »
'Fraid I can't say Alastair - perhaps someone else can help?

cliveh

 

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