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Author Topic: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton  (Read 9433 times)

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Offline Leofwine

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Re: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2010, 18:16:26 »
I've done some looking into this and one lot of information I have found suggested that the Manor was once between Middle Street & Manor Street in Brompton but that by the beginning of the 20th century it was falling down and a new manor house was built on the corner of Manor Street & Garden Street, but I can find nothing to back this up and may just be a misconception based on the corner house being called Manor House. (I wish I could remember where I read that!)  Certainly there is no sign of any manor houses in that area on any of the 19th century maps I have (just several terraces).

Hasted, writing in in the late 1790s writes:
Westward of the village [Gillingham] is Upberry and the manor house of Westcourt; beyond which the ground ascends to the summit of the chalk hill, on which is the town of Brompton, having a most beautiful prospect over the river and the adjoining country; and close to it the lines of fortification

WEST-COURT MANOR was sold by John Thorpe to Thomas Bradbury, who died possessed of it in the 2d year of king Henry VII. and one of his descendants passed it away to Nicholas Leveson, alias Lewson, of Whorne's-place, in Cookstone; from which name it passed by sale to Duling, of Rochester, whose daughter carried it in marriage to Mr. Stephen Alcock, and he alienated it to C?sar, who dying without male issue, his five daughters, Alice, married to John Higgons, gent. Irene, Margaret, Mary, and Alice C?sar, became his coheirs, and entitled to their respective shares in this manor. They in the 9th and 10th year of king William III. having procured an act of parliament for that purpose, alienated it to Thomas Rogers, gent. whose daughter Anna carried it in marriage to Christopher Searles, gent. of Hackslaple in Sutton-at-Hone; on whose death, in 1741, his widow became entitled to it for her life, and since her death, in 1774, their three surviving daughters, Anna wife of John Strover, of Rochester; Jane Arabella, married to George Weekley, gent. of Ware, in Hertfordshire, since deceased; and Elizabeth, wife of Joseph Poynton; are now become joint owners of this manor, and the lands belonging to it.
A court baron is held for this manor, which extends over that part of this parish called Brompton, which is built on the demesne land of it. The tenants are all freeholders in free soccage tenure.


This suggests a position nearer where the Police Station is now, and this ties in with Hasted's Map


Also, a 1790 description of Brompton makes no mention of a Manor in the village, but it seems Brompton was a part of the Manor of West Court (i.e. The lands of the Manorial estate) which would explain the name of Westcourt Street.
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Offline Maid of Kent

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Re: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 17:46:55 »
Interested to find this link.

I wonder if West Court Manor (and house ?) was where this street now is..

You might be interested to know that the Manors of West Court and East Court were one - the Manor of Gillingham owned by the descendants of Sir Hugh de Gillingham. Sometime during the reign Edward 1V or Richard 111 (1470's-80's) his descendant Sir Thomas de Gillingham died leaving two daughters to inherit. They divided it between them and renamed each part, Margaret taking West Court and Isabel East Court

West Court House has long gone but 'my' beloved East Court has managed to survive so far.

Offline Leofwine

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Re: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2010, 21:55:33 »
elmac, sadly all 3 of the addresses you mention were torn down in the 50s and 60s (a massive act of council vandalism IMO) and were replaced with 'modern' houses and flats. A few of the old even numbered houses up to no 12/14 (Rayner Sturgess Shirt Factory) survived in Westcourt Street, but the entire odd numbered side was demolished. Much the same thing happened in Manor Street too, but apart from the Church there, I think the oldest houses there now probably date to the 1920/30s, and very few of those.

I'm not sure which year your family were at 26 Westcourt Street, but the photo below shows the even numbers c.1920 from No. 20 to approximately 36 (the pub is No. 22) and beside it the same view today.  I know the numbering in the census does not always match up with the modern numbering before 1880, but generally after that it has not changed much.


No. 7 would probably be at the upper end of where McCudden Row is now (Named after Capt. James McCudden V.C. who lived in Westcourt Street as a child).


Sorry, I don't have a good pic of the part of Manor street your familt lived at, but it would only have been a few doors up from the (now long vanished) Royal Engineer Pub (the road on the right of this pic is Manor Street.


There are many more old pictures of the Brompton your ancestors would have known if you follow the link in my signature.
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elmac

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Re: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2010, 19:53:05 »
Hi
We have been doing some research into our ALLEN / CONNORS / LEO families who lived both at No 7 and No 26 Westcourt Street and at 36 Manor Street.  Our g-g-grandmother Hannah was a shopkeeper in Chatham / Old Brompton from the late 1890's (she died in 1910 at Manor St) and we wondered if the shop would be the one in Westcourt Street.  Any other photos etc would be most helpful as we are coming to Chatham on 24th September to have a look at these places where they all lived.  Such a shame we missed out talking to Len!


 :)

Happychap

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Re: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2010, 22:01:04 »
The coal yard started just befor the turn of the century on the opposite side of the road from where it is now "next door or in the yard of a pub" i know they use to store all the old timber there from all of the old buildings they knocked down in brompton as we still had some and len would tell us where it came from,The pub may of been called the GI?. and then the coal yard moved to manor street. and then in the 50s it moved back to westcourt street to where its is now..in the 70s when i was a kid we use to live in 38 manor street and can always rememeber diggin up lots of coal in the back garden so the coal yard must of
 been near or on the site to where we lived..

sorry this should of been in the " Brompton coal yard thread " :)

Offline bromptonboy

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Re: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2010, 16:14:25 »
They broke the mould when they made Len Green. The stories he could come out with were always worth listening to.

Happychap

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Re: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2010, 21:38:11 »
He did tell me a lot, he knew more than most and i was more than a happy listener.. i always use to look forward to wakeing up in the mornings to go to work to hear what new things he had to say about the history of brompton... he knew all the old familys as well and was able to go back years.. it was a sad day when we lost him, i still think about him a lot.. a good man...

Offline Leofwine

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Re: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2010, 21:29:10 »
I have similar memories of it being dark in there too, but the hot bread on a Sunday morning is my strongest memory of it.

I bet Len had plenty to tell you, he had a great knowledge of Brompton history.  It's a shame he's not still around to pass on that knowledge. :(
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Happychap

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Re: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2010, 21:13:50 »
I can remember it from the late 70s it has change a lot, i know it had the old wooden floors and always remember it being dark inside, i was only about 7 or 8 then... later on from 90 till 2003 i worked in the coalyard 2 doors away and my old boss len green use to tell me all the old history about brompton and new brompton and that his mum use to own the house next door to it and the coal yard use to be on the other side or the road from where it is now, i think it moved to where it is now in the 50s..

Offline prefabkid

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Re: Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2010, 14:44:58 »
From 1961Kelly's.

4,Westcourt Street, Brompton.

A C J Gilbert, grocers.

Offline Leofwine

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Shop in Westcourt Street, Brompton
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2010, 23:52:46 »
As I was snapping some shots around Brompton it brought back some old memories and some questions connected with Westcourt Street.

The building on the left (No. 4) was a shop up until the late 70s when it was 'renovated' from an old Victorian frontage to it's current form. I remember when I was a child the shop was a grocers/general store and every Sunday morning the owner brought fresh crusty bread from the bakery, still warm from the ovens (I think it was the old Sunblest bakery in the Beechings Way, Eastcourt Lane area).  There was always a queue to buy it, and it was always a treat to get home and have a slice or two with the butter melting from the warmth!  It's a good memory, but I cannot remember the name of the shop, can anyone else remember it?


The alley between these two buildings is the southern end of 'Broad Alley', the main alley that once ran between Wood Street and the New Cut. Sometime before 1866 this section of the alley became known as "Butcher's Alley".  Anyone know the origins of this?
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