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Author Topic: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below  (Read 11423 times)

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Offline TowerWill

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2012, 21:33:52 »
I've walked this tunnel from end to end JohnG, so I can vouch for it being there. It's situated in the counterscarp wall of the ditch opposite the Left Caponier and had a pile of chalk in front of the entrance if I recall correctly. At times we would be down in this section of ditch several times a week in the school holidays.

Offline JohnG

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2012, 19:22:26 »
I have a roll of original plans of Fort Burgoyne (11 sheets) and there are no tunnels shown on these.

Offline TowerWill

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2012, 09:12:47 »
This shot from Bing Maps shows the section of field next to the Guston Road and Fort Burgoyne. The tunnel I've mentioned runs under here and it appears that the Stop Line (anti tank ditch) restarted by the road. The steep banks here can be seen and this is at the upper end of Coombe Hole. The bare white patches are probably from the recent ordnance clearances carried out in this field but that would have been where the S.L. restarted.

Offline TowerWill

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2012, 08:27:20 »
I wonder what that long white shape is on jammy36's AP? It appears to be situated down in Coombe Hole on the cemetery boundary. I can't remember anything there about 10 years later than the AP. The hillside behind this white shape rises very steeply.

Offline TowerWill

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2012, 08:00:27 »
Many thanks jammy36 for showing us that AP! The ditch at Fort Burgoyne can be seen too. Yes, it looks like you're right about the Stop Line starting at the Guston Road opposite the Left Caponier. Pretty much right above the tunnel I was on about. We know they used the Burgoyne and West Wing Ditches as part of that Stop Line from other threads. Looks like my crop mark could have been from the Stop Line rather than from the tunnel below it at this spot.

jammy36

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2012, 14:46:29 »
Hi TowerWill

Here is a 1946 AP which I think shows the area you are talking about. North is to the top. The linear white feature at the top the image is the anti-tank ditch from Guston Road that runs through the Danes to the Deal Railway line. Fort Burgoyne is bottom right. There seems to be some sort of ditch/trench running parallel with Guston Road on the west side of the road between the fort and 'Tin Town'.

Offline TowerWill

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2012, 18:13:25 »
Unfortunately my theory, as far as the lighter grass above the Fort Burgoyne tunnel is concerned, probably is not correct as I've seen an AP from one of the World Wars which shows what looks like a trench or stop line between the Guston Road and the edge of Coombe Hole. Coombe Hole has a very steep side in this area. I'll mention where the photo can be seen if I come across it again. However we lost quite a few APs when various members left the Forum. Far away, the Fort Burgoyne tunnel was too deep for cut and cover but it would be interesting to know about other crop marks. The course of the main Stop Line can still be seen on the hillside nearby (other side of Tin Town site).

Offline Far away

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2012, 09:17:15 »
Would a tunnel of this kind be bored through the chalk, or made by the cut-and-cover method? If the latter, then I would expect a darker strip of grass, whereas if they bored a hole and lined it then even 4 feet below the surface it might prevent so much water being held by the chalk above it.

Offline TowerWill

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2010, 09:44:33 »
My only possible example so far is where the sallyport(?) tunnel runs under Fort Burgoyne's glacis. A faint line of lighter grass can be observed above this tunnel on G.E.Recent ordnance clearance doesn't appear to have affected this area and I can think of no major soil disturbance there in the last 50 years and probably none since the glacis was made. I first became interested in this when I noticed how a large patch of lighter coloured grass stood out on the Great Lines, though that may be due to mowing elsewhere on the Lines.

Offline unfairytale

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2010, 22:11:17 »
I think crop marks mainly show structures that were once on the surface; the Spur tunnel for example only reached the surface where the air vents once were. The upper parts of this tunnel are said to be four feet under ground so I don't think they'd show up as parch marks in a field
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Offline TowerWill

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2010, 21:34:12 »
Kyn's map (Reply 49, Dover Castle Tunnels) show the tunnels that lead from the Spur towards Connaught Barracks. How far they actually go I don't know, but I understand that they come very close to the surface in places as the coaches in the car park can be heard. If there was grass instead of tarmac there I might have been able to try my theory out. I think they featured on a local tv programme which showed how difficult they were to access. I know where their entrance is and it would have been completely beyond us as kids even if we could get past the bars. They didn't want the enemy getting in that way even just to the outer defences. But as I say it's a place I never got into.

Offline Lee

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2010, 16:32:52 »
Hi Andy
I worked at Connaught Bks for 9 yrs and used the old stable block in the Fort Burgoyne area as our mess room and went through many of the old buildings in the Fort whilst working there, but was never aware of any underground tunnels linking the camp to the fort, except for the filled in moat and semi tunnels to the armoury
bsrgds
Lee
Lee

Offline TowerWill

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2010, 09:57:19 »

This Google Earth Image appears to show where the ditch infill has kept the grass greener. The greener semi cicle is where the buried Double Caponier is situated.

Offline TowerWill

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2010, 08:14:47 »

Some of the marks in the fields around Dover. At the top are the foundations I mentioned by the road, with the ring and railway on the other side of the road. I've noticed another ring nearer the bottom right of the screen. Both have another mark making them look like the letter "Q". Something from WW2? Google Earth is a very good tool for this sort of study.

Offline TowerWill

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Re: "Crop marks" in grass possibly showing tunnels below
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2010, 18:36:59 »
Hello Andy, there are indeed tunnels running from Dover Castle and heading in the direction of Fort Burgoyne. I'll leave it to someone else to expand on the subject though.

 

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