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Author Topic: New Brompton - When?  (Read 21290 times)

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Hannah G

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2011, 15:37:26 »
Hi,

Further to all these maps and the original question, was New Brompton developed in direct correlation with the expansion of the barracks? And does anyone know how that effected the non-military aspect of medway residents? I have read that Gillingham and Chatham farms nearly always had brick fields attached for profitable removal of clay from the earth.

Offline Charles

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2011, 19:00:40 »
For anyone interested in the history of Brompton please note that at the world heritage site partnership meeting on Tuesday 1st February a call will be made for volunteers to participate in a possible project to better understand the role of Brompton as part of the site.

Lots is already known by people already researching the place and the task may now be to pull this together and look to see where the gaps are and what could be done about filling them.

See you there.

Offline swiftone

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2011, 09:25:12 »
Leofwine, in your first post you mentioned Chatham St and Charlton St. I cannot find any reference to Chatham St but Charlton St was a continuation of Saxton St between Cross st and the High St.
I should have mentioned that on the 1866 map there are two Cross Streets. The one I mentioned became Lock Street.

Offline swiftone

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2011, 10:00:04 »
Rev. James Frederick Schon lived there for a number of years:
http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4059.0

Interesting Post Merc. In the 1851 census he was living in Green St, 1861 Palm Cottage, 1871 Beacon Close Lane Stafford St, 1881 Palm House (still chaplain at Melville Hospital age 78). SCHÖN as he spelt his name means handsome (beautiful) in German. Who owned Palm House I wonder? The grounds look extensive on the 1870 map.

merc

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2011, 22:15:10 »
Merc, do you know anything about Palm Cottage that was opposite Westcourt Farm in Canterbury Road (Street)?

Rev. James Frederick Schon lived there for a number of years:

http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=4059.0

Offline swiftone

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2011, 13:20:46 »
Leofwine, in your first post you mentioned Chatham St and Charlton St. I cannot find any reference to Chatham St but Charlton St was a continuation of Saxton St between Cross st and the High St.

Offline Leofwine

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2011, 21:07:37 »
Nile Cottage does appear to have been the first living accommodation in the area but when did the Flour Mill appear? Why was it at the bottom of Fox Lane? Maybe to supply the armed services.

I'm not sure why there, but in part it may have been the government not wanting to allow high buildings  too close to the fortifications which may have supplied vantage points for spies or sharpshooters. Another consideration might just be where Steadman owned, or was able to buy, land with a reasonable prevailing wind.  I must admit, to me it has always seemed an odd place for a mill as it is halfway down the hill, rather than on top as you tend to picture windmills!
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merc

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2011, 20:57:50 »
Most of the path crossing the Black Lion fields still exists ( unless it's changed recently).

They closed the Church Path off at the Black Lion for a while when they were creating the athletics track for Medway Park. But it's accessable now.

Offline swiftone

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2011, 19:34:35 »
On a slight side note, I've just noticed the 1819 and 1832 maps also clearly show Church Path, the route used by Bromptonians to get to Gillingham Church before Bromton had its own church. From the Sally Port it crossed the lines to Fox Lane (Mill Road) and I think the next section eventually became part of Saunders Street & Burnt Oak Terrace (but I stand to be corrected on this). Today I believe only the stretch of Church Path closest to Gillingham Church retains the name.
The Church path also went from Fox Lane crossing what is now Prince Arthur Rd to where Brompton Road crosses the defence ditch. Prince Arthur Road was later rerouted along the old Church Path. Most of the path crossing the Black Lion fields still exists ( unless it's changed recently). From Fox Lane to the bottom of Skinner Street was named Church Road when the first houses were built.

Nile Cottage does appear to have been the first living accommodation in the area but when did the Flour Mill appear? Why was it at the bottom of Fox Lane? Maybe to supply the armed services.

merc

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2011, 18:27:19 »
The 1801 map allso seems to show Sray Lane, which I thought disappeared when the Chatham Lines were upgraded in the 1780s. Maybe it didn't finally go until the next round of upgrades in the early 1800s?
I think i read it stopped being called Spray Lane after 1804.

Offline Leofwine

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2011, 16:38:34 »
On a slight side note, I've just noticed the 1819 and 1832 maps also clearly show Church Path, the route used by Bromptonians to get to Gillingham Church before Bromton had its own church. From the Sally Port it crossed the lines to Fox Lane (Mill Road) and I think the next section eventually became part of Saunders Street & Burnt Oak Terrace (but I stand to be corrected on this). Today I believe only the stretch of Church Path closest to Gillingham Church retains the name.

The 1801 map allso seems to show Spray Lane, which I thought disappeared when the Chatham Lines were upgraded in the 1780s. Maybe it didn't finally go until the next round of upgrades in the early 1800s?
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Offline Leofwine

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2011, 16:31:40 »
The Westcourt/New Brompton Farm mystery continues. Col. Mudge's map of 1819 shows Westcourt Farm in its final(?) location, the same position as the New Brompton Farm in the 1832 map, so perhaps New Brompton Farm was an alternate name for Westcourt Farm, or it changed its name then reverted back again as suggested in my previous post?


(Larger version available on Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/22124479@N03/5354285675/in/set-72157624087225321/)

swiftone: I can't remember now where I read it, but somewhere I saw a reference to Nile cottage being
 the 'first house in what would become New Brompton' being built c.1720, which seemed to agree with the date of 1722 you gave for it.

I know what you mean about trying to figure out the route taken for the censuses, though I did manage to figure them out for most years in Old Brompton, which is a useful guide to locating old buildings like pubs, halls, etc, as well as locations of old alleys and courts. To add to the confusion, the routes do seem to vary slightly from census to census.
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Offline swiftone

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2011, 11:56:21 »
Leofwine. The 1832 map of the Medway Towns is in the Archive Centre at Strood. In the 1841 census John Steadman lived in part of Nile Cottage and his nearby Flour Mill is shown on the 1832 map. Interesting that your research shows Nile Cottage as the start of New Brompton. Can you expand on this? The 1841 census route seems to go from Sharps Green, Grange etc, Church St, along Gillingham Lane (Pier Road), Clarence Place, Exmouth Terrace, then stops at Nile Cottage. This was folio 1. Folio 2 includes West Court Farm (no mention of New Brompton Farm) following on from Beacon Cott. Chatham Hill, then Scruchin? Farm, Barnsole Farm, Briton Farm, Fox Lane, later on in folio 2 Park Place, Wellington Place, Nelson St, etc. Mind you, it is confusing trying to work out the routes taken in the absence of a scan.

merc

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2011, 19:29:27 »
Sometime in the early 19th century it moved again, and my understanding was that it moved to approximately where the Westcourt Arms is now in Canterbury Street, which would seem to be the one labelled New Brompton Farm on the 1832 map. I wonder if when first built it changed its name to New Brompton Farm, but later returned to its original name.
Indeed Leofwine, it's got me wondering to.

I live not far from the Westcourt Arms. Much of the Westcourt farm land was divided into plots, and auctioned off in 1862. The Westcourt farm buildings remained until the 1880's.

My house was built in the middle of a cornfield....if you get what i mean :)

Offline Leofwine

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Re: New Brompton - When?
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2011, 18:38:29 »
Hopefully this will throw further light on previous queries on this subject. Modern road names have been used.
There was a map somewhere on the forum dated 1701 I think that showed the Town of Brompton as High St, Wood St, Middle St and Westcourt St. This 1801 map shows some more development and Brompton shown inside the fortifications. New Brompton is not shown although there is some development in Marlborough Rd and Westcourt Farm in it's original position
Very interesting swiftone :)
I wonder what year 'New Brompton Farm' became 'Westcourt Farm'...

Westcourt Farm moved around a lot! Originally it seems to be synonymous With Westcourt Manor, but whether the Manor House was also the farm house, or whether the farm was just part of the manorial buildings is unclear.  The earliest known location for it was about where the United Services Rugby Ground is on the lines (opposite the King Charles Hotel in Wood Street/Brompton Road. When the Government compulsorily purchased the land to build the Lines the farm moved eastwards and on the 1750s/1780s Chatham Lines Plans (and the one patmore posted), it is apparently around the area where the lower end of modern  Marlborough Road meets the High Street. It seems to still be there on the 1801 map swiftone posted.  Sometime in the early 19th century it moved again, and my understanding was that it moved to approximately where the Westcourt Arms is now in Canterbury Street, which would seem to be the one labelled New Brompton Farm on the 1832 map. I wonder if when first built it changed its name to New Brompton Farm, but later returned to its original name.

Edit: These comments on the various locations of Westcourt Farm got me wondering, and rather than relying on second hand interpretations of maps (which had suggested late 18th century maps showed WF by the end of the High St), I decided to overlay the 1756 & 1786 maps I have over a google earth image and found that even on those (which are very accurate maps despite what some have said) the Farm is at its earlier location, about where the United Services rugby ground is, so in fact it only moved once, not twice, presumably around 1803/4 when the government closed the old Chatham-Gillingham road to increase the open field of fire for the Lines.

1832 map shows New Brompton development in the High St/ Marlborough Rd triangle. Nile Cottage is at the bottom of Mill Rd and I believe it was built in 1722. New Brompton Farm was the new location of Westcourt Farm. Chatham Racecourse attracted thousands.
I love this map! It  is the first time I have actually seen the Lines Racecourse shown on a map. Do you know where it came from.  It is also good because you can see that the 1840s newspaper description I posted above matches very closely to what is there. I always love finding more than one source that corroborate one another.

1869 shows New Brompton developed to meet up with Gillingham. Brompton is typically shown as stretching to Mill Road for the rest of the century although this may have been for clarity.

From what I've seen I think maybe the government mapmakers just considered New and Old Brompton as one settlement in the early days.  I always find this map frustrating because of the blanked out fortifications. One day I may have to get a good scan of it and drop the lines back into it!

1885 shows the location of the convict prison inside the fortifications where the naval barracks were eventually built which is probably why it came within the Brompton census. The censuses can appear to contradict maps because of ecclesiastical boundaries overlapping Parish boundaries and the Parish of Gillingham falling within the Borough of Chatham.

I'm still looking into the history of the Convict Prison, but from my initial  digging I think the casemated prison cells may have just been taken over to form St Mary's Barracks, but the prison may have been demolished then new Barracks built on the site. So much to research, so little time!

Perhaps someone with greater knowledge can throw more light on these maps.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me can fill in more details, but looking at the maps and the other digging I've done so ar it seems the first part of New Brompton was Nile Cottage, soon followed by a small terrace in Fox Lane (later Mill Road) around the mid 18th century. A few houses in what is now Marlborough Road (Park Terrace?), sprang up in the later 18th century, above Westcourt Farm.  Sometime in the first decade or two of the 19th century Westcourt Farm moved and was slowly replaced by the nucleus of New Brompton, which continued to expand rapidly throughout the rest of the centur
y.
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