News:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: double deck trains  (Read 20079 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Sentinel S4

  • Established Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1932
  • Appreciation 165
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2017, 11:26:23 »
Correct Oldbob. They were no higher than existing stock, a little thing called 'loading gauge' restricts the height and width of trains. These were built to run on the Dartford/London services. There would have been no problem with Higham Tunnel(s) as that is very generous in proportion. These sets were an experiment and seeing how the mind of Bullied worked, could well have been designed to not work that well. As in the attitude of 'I'll build it but it won't work', They look bigger than the other electric sets as they have a massive bluff front, other sets had a rounded roof end, and I believe that they were a little flatter on the sides, not as much tumble-home, up to the cant-rail where the roof starts.

Yes it was the time they took to disgorge and en-train passengers that killed them off. They actually had fewer doors than some existing commuter stock.

S4.
A day without learning something is a day lost and my brain is hungry. Feed me please.

Offline Oldbob

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Appreciation 0
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2017, 11:03:46 »
Geoff B

I am sure you are correct that the demise of the double deckers was caused by their excessive loading time which caused delays on commuter services. The design was taken up on the continent, where they are now used extensively on intercity routes, where loading time is not so critical.

Geoff B

  • Guest
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2012, 21:53:28 »
Nobody believes me when I mention the curious double-decker trains I remember seeing at [I think] Cannon St station during a short commuting period to London from Sittingbourne mid 1960s.

I believe they were specifically designed for sardine treatment of short distance commuters from Dartford, but as with most things forty years ago, I ain't sure.

But I am sure I saw them, did anyone else?

I think the main reason the idea didnt catch on they took too long at stations getting people on and off.

Offline man-of-kent

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 141
  • Appreciation 6
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2012, 21:08:53 »
Just found this:
Do you have a date or location for that photo?
I think 70 was Charing Cross-Bexleyheath-Dartford, which was certainly one of the DD train's routes
The picture was taken by my friend Les Kelly, who was a signalman. I will ask him for a date next time I see him.
Derek Brice

Geoff B

  • Guest
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2012, 19:34:20 »
Are/were there no tunnels on the lines they were used on from London - Dartford - Gravesend, or were the Higham and Strood tunnels lower than normal?

Yes they were a funny shape as they used to be canal tunnels. I believe they were height restricted also.

Geoff B

  • Guest
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2012, 19:31:18 »
The train is standing at platform 2 at London Bridge, the photographer is on platform 3. This would suggest that the train has come from Cannon Street or Possibly Holborn Viaduct.

70 headcode isCharing cross or  London Bridge to Dartford via Bexleyheath. Platform 2 is reversible so it probably was a terminator starting from London bridge. Canno St services had odd numbers. IE 71. I used to be a train driver at Charing Cross. You could not get down platform 2 from Holborn only Platform 4 or 5 that headcode ended in the 8s so it would have been 78 or possible 79.

Offline Stewie

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Appreciation 16
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2012, 19:09:36 »
The train is standing at platform 2 at London Bridge, the photographer is on platform 3. This would suggest that the train has come from Cannon Street or Possibly Holborn Viaduct.

Offline ChrisExiledFromStrood

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 180
  • Appreciation 6
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2012, 19:07:30 »
Just found this:
Do you have a date or location for that photo?
I think 70 was Charing Cross-Bexleyheath-Dartford, which was certainly one of the DD train's routes

Offline man-of-kent

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 141
  • Appreciation 6
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2012, 17:00:25 »
Just found this:

Derek Brice

Offline Sentinel S4

  • Established Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1932
  • Appreciation 165
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2011, 09:35:09 »
Hi well put NCR, that said she still had a lot of work done though. The way Railway Preservation works these days is fantastic. I understand that the Bluebell are building a 'lost' loco, a Marsh Atlantic. There was even talk of a second King Arthur class being seen as they have the tender wheels of Bors de Ganis. In recent years we have seen the resurection of many seemingly 'dead' projects, Duke of Gloucester, Manston, Eddystone and not forgetting the magic Tornado. I had no love of the Southern Electrics, you could keep the EPB and the CEP and the VEP but suddenly they had gone. Now Hornby and Bachmann are making models of this stick and I feel the urge to add some to my train set as I miss them, this modern stuff has no soul like the slam door sets had. I traveled in this unit when it was at Ashford. It was pulled up and down the shed side by the H class, the O1 was there looking on, it was very dissapointing and I am not supprised that the site closed. It was supposed to be the Southern answer to the NRM. As for the ride, I went twice as Dad was in touch with the owner. Both times I had a ride in the coach. It was singular and both times went upstairs. I felt very closed in and it was very quiet, even with the H banging away up front. I think we will see this resored but in their own time, we may even see a complete set. But unless they can find some where that has the clearence then they wil never run again and will only be a cosmetic restoration. I would be sad to see these fine examples of Bullied's experimental mind vanish. S4.
A day without learning something is a day lost and my brain is hungry. Feed me please.

Offline Sentinel S4

  • Established Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1932
  • Appreciation 165
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2011, 23:35:28 »
Don't forget that strange things happen on that farm. Remember that Eddystone was there, it was said that she would never feel the rails beneath her wheels as she had cracked frames. I now hear that she is a candidate for a main line ticket........
A day without learning something is a day lost and my brain is hungry. Feed me please.

NCR

  • Guest
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2011, 22:47:20 »
Even if they were a bit of a joke in practice (a great idea on paper but UK rail infrastructure limiting the "perfect" design potential) this is a sad outcome:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/5699760333/

Deserves better. One of my earliest memories is a journey out of London on these.

Don't forget YOUTUBE for some smashing footage of the Bullied 4D-D.

Offline becks

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Appreciation 2
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2011, 19:37:29 »
I thought member might like to see some photos taken from "Southern Electric" by G T Moody, fourth edition 1968






Offline becks

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Appreciation 2
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2011, 20:38:51 »
Reference to the reply by Stewie, you may be right, as the tunnels between Rochester and Gillingham are probably tighter.  Thinking back to when I was involved with the test runs during commissioning class 465 Networkers, Higham and Strood tunnels always looked on the larger size from the cab, and that was before the major chalk fall and the relining when it was shut for a year (late 1990s?).


Offline Stewie

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 370
  • Appreciation 16
Re: double deck trains
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2011, 19:17:36 »
becks

I do not believe that side clearence was ever a problem in Strood / Higham tunnels prior to it being brick lined recently! Its original purpose made it a very wide tunnel indeed, I thought it was quite high as well. Regrettblly it was one of the few tunnels in the South East that I never got to walk through when I was still trackside in the 80's. 
The restriction may well have been the tunnels through the Medway Towns which are a bit tighter.
It may also be that south of Gravesend, It was not considered neccessary to run such high density stock as the overcrowding had reduced by that stage of the journey and the regular Charing Cross to Gilliigham services were adaquate.

Stewie

 

BloQcs design by Bloc
SMF 2.0.11 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines