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Author Topic: Re: Troy Town, Rochester  (Read 34383 times)

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Offline peterchall

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2010, 17:06:46 »
I'm sure you are right about the building being Brackley's garage, so wouldn't that be the Foord St Fire station? Immediately next to John Street was a yard with lock-up garages. I thought the appliance bay with the Dennis fire engine that you posted a picture of was next to that.
  http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=7315.msg59523#msg59523
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Offline afsrochester

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2010, 15:29:38 »
Cracking photograph man-of kent! :)

I'm 99% sure the white corrugated asbestos building is Brackleys Garage in Foord Street, in which case the entrance to the site must be very close to where the old Co-op laundry building must have stood. Can you tell me what the buildings on the right of the photograph were used for please, and who owned them?

Many Thanks AFS Rochester.

Offline smiler

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2010, 21:22:54 »
Served my apprenticeship at Barnes & Brookers would have been there at time of photo.That could be cold at times working in that yard was not covered until Squires & Knight took over.

Offline man-of-kent

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2010, 11:53:33 »
I found this old photo I took back in 1965. The garage was then called Barnes and Brooker.


The tower blocks were still being built.

Derek Brice
Derek Brice

Offline Megapack162

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2010, 14:13:02 »
1932. Unfortunately the 2 halfs were scanned at different sizes & I can't get them to line up, but hopefully it can help.


How about this version of your maps, resized the right side map, expanded the image attributes for the left side, copied and pasted into left side and reset the image attributes to fit the map. Not perfect but pretty close....
 

seb

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2010, 11:26:03 »
reply 171 from grantidge.   You mention Beryl Bates.   What guide troop were you with and when?   She taught me at St.Peter's Primary, New Road, Rochester.   She used to be a Brown Owl for 2nd Rochester but wanted to concentrate on Guides so my mother took the Brownies over and became district Brown Owl.   Did you attend Beryl's memorial at the Cathedral?

Offline peterchall

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2010, 17:42:43 »
I've been looking at the 1891 Census for Maidstone Road, Rochester, and have found some surprising results.

207 individual premises are listed, grouped by 'type' and not location.

There are these 'groups' each having more than one residence, numbered from 1 to ? in each case: Berkeley Villas; Bramble Island Cottages; Clifton Villas; Colden Villas; Fort Clarence Quarters; Grove Villas; Home Villas; Lansdown Villas; Merton Villas; Moat House; Vine Villas; Warders Quarters; Watts Alms Houses.

There are 16 premises with numbers but no names, and many with names but no numbers. In the latter case are included: City Mineral
Works ( occupied by the Manager and family); Girls Grammar School (occupied by the Headmistress etc); St Nickolas(sic) Cemetery Cottage (occupied by Caretaker); Managers House, Cement Works (occupied by Manager, Portland Cement Works).

The only identifiable pub is the 'Maidstone Arms', given no number in the Census. However, the link below shows it as being at 3 Maidstone Road, the part between the High Street and East Row and commonly known as 'Crow Lane'. The building was still there in February 2010.
http://deadpubs.co.uk/KentPubs/Rochester/MaidstoneArms.shtml

To add to the confusion (mine at any rate) 'Crow Lane' is listed separately and shows only 'Restoration House' and 'The Vines'.
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Offline peterchall

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2010, 12:22:57 »
So far as I can gather their situation would be as follows.

Watts Alms Houses were a charity only for residents.

The 'New Poor Law' of 1834 superseded the Elizabethan system that was the responsibility of individual parishes and created 'Poor Law Unions' based on local councils, the most far-reaching effect being the elimination of 'out relief' and requiring recipients to live in Workhouses. The National Insurance Act of 1911 gave relief against illness and unemployment for those over 16 who paid contributions, but not until the National Assistance Act of 1948 was everybody, contributors or not, covered.

Since the family was not in a workhouse it seems they would have received no support unless they subscribed to a friendly society, such as the 'Oddfellows' or 'Buffaloes', that grew in response to the harshness of the official system. Then they would only have got support in case of illness.

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Offline smiler

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2010, 18:51:22 »
Wonder if living opposite Watts Alms House could have helped them?

Offline peterchall

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2010, 18:16:15 »
Thanks Peterchall for posting those census results, I have copies of the originals of these which I still can't manage to post on here. They are very interesting, particularly the poor lady (a widow) at number 103 with 10 children! You can only imagine...

Can you imagine? I thought it would be interesting to have a closer look at the family. I've omitted names and just given the status, age, date of birth, and occupation (if any).

Widow: 39: 1862
Son: 18: 1883: Shipwright Apprentice
Daughter: 17: 1884
Son: 15: 1886: Bricklayers Apprentice
Son: 13: 1888
Son: 11:1890
Son: 8: 1893
Son: 6: 1895
Son: 4: 1897
Daughter: 2: 1899
Daughter: 0: 1901.

The Census was taken on 31 March 1901, so the youngest child was less than 3 months old and the lady must have been widowed for no more than 1 year. There were only two wage earners in the family, and as apprentices their income would have been a pittance.

I wonder if any state benefits were available to that family, and what other support would have been available to them!
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Offline peterchall

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2010, 10:30:27 »
Re houses with front yards: I lived in Ross Street and James Street, 1940-1945, and had little reason to go onto Maidstone Road. But I can say for certain that Nos97 to 107 did not have front yards during my connection with the Foresters, 1946-1954, nor did the houses between Dunnings Lane and King Street.

I wonder if the semi-circular facade above the Foresters ever had a name on it - I can't remember.

The 1893 OS map shows Maidstone Road built up as far as Clive Road, so even if the various terraces were built in stages, they were all there before 1893.
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VN

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2010, 08:36:14 »
Thanks Peterchall for posting those census results, I have copies of the originals of these which I still can't manage to post on here. They are very interesting, particularly the poor lady (a widow) at number 103 with 10 children! You can only imagine...

I have tried to photgraph the 'Morden Place 1822 ' plaque which is on number 107 Maidstone Road without any luck, it is high up and very faint but definitely there. I have a theory that Morden Place originally consisted of what are now numbers 97 - 107.

The houses after 107 are slightly set back from the others and would have been in another block of 4 houses, o
nly two of which remain (113 and 115 were demolished as discussed earlier). Could this small terrace have been 'Clarence Place' or 'Upper Clarence Place'? Am planning a visit to the archives soon so will see what I can find.

Also wonder whether this whole row of houses once had small front yards? This would bring the frontage of the properties level with the others in the road (95 and below) as seen on Newmanfan's 1932 plan where numbers 111 - 115 still show theirs.

Offline peterchall

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2010, 22:16:47 »
Back to Queen Street, north side:
Counting the houses from Maidstone Road in Numanfan's map, there is a small building that would be No17, then 3 buildings in a 'yard' that would be Nos19, 21, & 23. That would make the pub No25, as already established.
http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3711.msg68193#msg68193

Looking at my photo, I think No17 is the building that looks like a church and what looks like a notice board is on the end of No 19 that is facing Queen Street, and it is definitely the 'old' Good Intent that's at the right of the photo.
http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/ind
ex.php?topic=3711.msg68094#msg68094

This may answer something that has been bugging me. I have a memory of a Mr Jones who had a yard behind the King's Arms pub on Maidstone Road, where he specialised in Austin 7 repairs and salvaged spares. Kelley's for 1955 shows a Mrs K. Jones, Motor Engineer, at Nos17 - 23. So it wasn't right behind the King's Arms but further down behind the Good Intent. (Well, I was partly right, it was behind a pub :)).
http://www.kenthistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3711.msg67495#msg67495

So that has refreshed my memory of the north side of Queen Street, thanks once again to Numanfan.

There is still the question of why the name 'Morden' crops up so much in the area.
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Offline peterchall

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2010, 20:51:11 »
The Foresters Arms is first listed on Maidstone Road, Rochester, in the 1861 Census. It does not have a number, and named premises are listed in alphabetical order, so it isn't possible to tell whereabouts in the road it was.

The first Census which clearly lists properties in their relative locations is 1901, and I thought it would be interesting to look at the properties between Dunnings Lane and Hoopers Road. I have shown only the house number, the occupation of the head occupier, and the total number of people living there. I can give more details if requested.

1901 Census
97: Licensed Victualler: 4
99: House Decorator: 3
101: Engine Fitter: 3
103: Widow: 11
105: Confectioner and Fruiter: 4
107: Plumber: 9
109: Upholstress: 1
111: Solicitor's Clerk: 4
113: Watchmaker & Jeweller: 8  (incl 1 lodger & 1 servant)
115: House Decorator: 6

1911Census
97 'Foresters Arms': Naval Pensioner & Beer Retailer: 2
99: Carriage Painter for Jobmaster: 2
101: Hairdresser: 1
101: Charwoman: 1
101: Housekeeper: 3
103: Yeast & Baker's Utensils: 3
105: House Decorator: 3
107: Timber Inspector: 2
109: Milliner: 1
111: Coal Factor's Clerk & Army Pensioner: 6
113: Watch & Jewellery Repairer: 7
115: Blacksmith: 6
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VN

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Re: Troy Town, Rochester
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2010, 19:03:30 »



A couple of minor 'diversions': Dunnings Lane from Maidstone Road downn past the Foresters was white cobblestones.



You can still see some peeping out of the tarmac at the top end beside 97 Maidstone Rd!

 

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